Barack Obama Revealed, A Dire Warning from an African American...

Hear hear GINA!! (applause/ovation)

I wouldn't try to scare you..

But thats exactly what you're trying to do. From your article....

I've come to the conclusion Barack Obama is definitely under the influence of a radical ideology that is so dangerous, it could literally pose a danger to the very existance of the Unted States.

Yet you fail to point out exactly what that danger is.... irational fearmongering, pure and simple.

You may not be a registered Republican, but your methods suggest you'd make a fine addition to their party...

Ahh... so the bogie man in the closet is...wait for it... Socialism. in which case this isn't really about Obama at all, it's about how you conservatives view liberals. The evil liberals will socialize and ruin our country... be afraid... be very afraid... 

You could have saved us all a lot of trouble if you had just written an article saying "liberals are going to destroy the country."

At least you didn't repeat your ridiculous assertion that you weren't playing on peoples fears...

So tell me, Jazz - what exactly do you KNOW about socialism?  

Note:   I'm not saying it is good or bad.  I am asking you to explain your view on it, since you seem to be implying that IF Obama were planning what you say, it would be so terrible for America.

I'd like you to explain that. 

Your response is as immature as any can be.  Sarcasm isn't what is required here. 

Personally, I think Ian's reply is far more mature than the article he's replying to. 

TC,

Well said and absolutely true...but, even so, considering the tenor of the leftists posting to this seed, you might as well be trying to explain quantum mechanics to a second grader.

Quantum physics might produce theories, formulations and proof. 

Unfortunately this article is based on some inner knowledge this guy has of African Americans like Obama, although not Obama himself - just the type of Obama figure...err...stunning research to absorb here - No wonder it escapes us lefties, we are looking for the substance, the proof, not just propositions dressed up as facts.

As for the oversimplified anti-socialist rant - Being a leftie means many things to many different types of people.  I think it means thinking about society in general and thinking about mediation of all interests including big business and the over inflated trickle down effect it promises. 

By the way - how is that free marketeering working out for you right now? 

The problem with being extreme in either right or left is a failure to understand that democracy should be about the interests of the population.  It should not be about a divide and reward principle which was evidenced in the Bush administration.   Most Democrats are not about jumping on the scale to upend it in their favour, government should be about balancing all interests while being socially and fiscally responsible. 

Your assertion that socialism is evil is as simplistic as the notion that capitalism is. 

By the way - how is that free marketeering working out for you right now? 

Socialism did this to us!

"The untold story in this whole national crisis is that President Clinton put on steroids the Community Redevelopment Act, a well-intended Carter-era law designed to encourage minority homeownership. And in so doing, he helped create the market for the risky subprime loans that he and Democrats now decry as not only greedy but ‘predatory.’ Yes, the market was fueled by greed and overleveraging in the secondary market for subprimes, vis-a-vis mortgaged-backed securities traded on Wall Street. But the seed was planted in the ‘90s by Clinton and his social engineers.”

Social engineers?

    Socialism is why we are where we are on the brink of a depression! And if Obama gets in with his socialist programs it could be many years to get out of it. Raising capital gains taxes will drive us deeper into the hole.  Taxing people who make more than $250,000 will slow bussiness which cut our chances of gettint out of this soon.

* Demand the impossible. Demand levels of justice, non-violence, environmentalism and public welfare that no government can ever meet. If the come close to meeting it, up the demands. At some point the government will grow so big and so useless that it will collapse and usher in the socialist revolution.

Excellent point and post.

Transformative Change @ 33

Replace socialism with capitalism in your comment, a few tweaks of words here and there elsewhere, and you have a message for the other side. Keep spinning the wheel and you'll get different versions for all scenarios. KWIM?

Replace socialism with capitalism in your comment

Nice try.

But that would only apply if one does not understand the basic tenets of the two.

basic tenets of the two

Well, let's look at those basic tenets.

Capitalism is the economic system in which the means of production are owned by private persons, and operated for profit^[1] and where investments, distribution, income, production and pricing of goods and services are predominantly determined through the operation of a free market^[2], rather than by central economic planning.

Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society.^[1][2] Modern socialism originated in the late nineteenth-century working class political movement. Karl Marx posited that socialism would be achieved via class struggle and a proletarian revolution, it being the transitional stage between capitalism and communism.

Not rocket science. Most would understand the difference. Most would also understand what I meant with "...a few tweaks of words here and there elsewhere,..." and get the meaning.

RKR:

You can find words to twist anything toward a personal agenda such as yours.

Every philosophy and everything has over laps and similarities.  There is no purely socialist and purely capitalist society that I know of

However, despite semantics they are two very different systems in their pure sense.

IMO, most of what is recognized as a socialist society destroys personal ambition, rewards the status quo, encourages underachievement, and stymies innovation in science, electronics, medicine, etc. 

Most capitalist countries have a mixed market system. Still, the more government intervenes with regulations as opposed to oversight the more problems appear to be created, IMO. 

The recent mortgage backed securities sparked by government mandated loosened lending standards is a good example.

Less Governement works better IMO. A recent excellent example is the two buyout offers for Wachovia.

Citibank, backed by government funds offered,  $2.2. billion to buy the struggling Wachovia...while Wells fargo offered $15 billion...without any government backing.

Which situation do you think is better for the shareholders?  Did the government backing help?  Did it benefit the shareholders?  No.  The free market pulled in a better deal all on it's own.  Now thanks to government meddling the case is held up in the courts, and to the detriment of the shareholders.

It is possible to have capitalism without a free market, but IMO, a free market with oversight is the most productive type of society. The oversight should be restricted to ensuring transparency to avoid illegal activity rather than mandating strict regulations.

But it is possible to have capitalism without a free market. The systems that existed in the U.S.S.R and exist in China and Cuba demonstrate this.

Socialist tenets cause problems, IMO.

The recent crisis is an excellent example of the problems caused by government meddling.

ShaunV, you wrote:

"RKR:

You can find words to twist anything toward a personal agenda such as yours.

Doesn't that make the point that RKR stated?

This is actually a very good point -- I am most worried about the people behind the scenes. I really want less government in my life and it looks like neither candidate is going to give me that -- so I am going to "waste" my vote -- again -- and vote for a third party candidate. Maybe if enough of the FED UP people voted their beliefs we could get a government "of the people, by the people, for the people"

I'd be more worried about the people around him when he gets to sit in that office....

You mean like Bill Ayers being HEW Sec? Jamie Gorelick as the AG? Franklin Raines HUD Sec? Stuff like that? Me too.

Jazzman,

First off Friend's request is sent. Now down to business.

You seem to like the writing, although not what I wrote, but I don't think you really have a clue about me as a person, but hey, I'm going to let you do your thing

The only clue I have about you is what I have seen here on newsvine and what I can garner from your writing. In other words, I know as much about you as a person as either of us know about Obama.  Which is one of the points I tried to make in my post. I can only judge your character from the actions you take and what I see.

"I don't know you, but I do know there's an ever present undercurrent of mistrust between white and black Americans in general, and in private I know many AA's who will state their hatred of whites and of this country. I don't think I ever said ALL."

How can there be anything but mistrust ? When we have intelligent, mainstream, clean blacks (almost a Bidden quote) that help reinforce that mistrust. By posting a thread that says most (not all) black people act friendly when white people are around, but once they leave our true hatred and disdain comes out. Honestly what do you expect ?

 terence, you really don't know me. I could care less what anyone thinks of me, white, black or other (especially on the internet). I have been set free of any desire to be accepted by anyone (and that's an article I may one day write), and I just put the plain truth out there as I see it.

I don't know you that is a fact. But I do know a lot of human beings and guess what there is not one of us that has achieved that level of enrichment where we don't care what any other human being on the planet thinks of us. And that is the plain truth. If you are such a person then I will respect that; even though I could never understand it.

 I don't think we will ever solve our issues of race in this country until we have some honest dialogue about where we are, and that's what I try to do, get some honest dialogue going on.

Less than 30 years ago black men were considered to dumb to quarterback a Pro football team. Wait that is too harsh, we were not smart enough to quarterback a pro football team.  How did this myth get stamped out ? Not by dialogue, no. But by Doug Williams winning a Superbowl and being a black quarterback.  Dialogue is good but action is as the saying goes speaks louder than words. Having a black leader of this country will go much further to help quell race problems than any dialogue ever will.

 I feel a connection to Obama every time I see him, but I just don't think he's the person for this job. I feel he's aligned himself with forces, and ideology,  to get here that will do the country great  harm.

I have a question for you, what do you feel when you see McCain ?

There is something I like to call the mirror effect that I like to use.  When I see a candidate I like to to try and see what part of my reflection I see in that candidate. Not a physical reflection but moral, ideological, and commonality reflection.

In Obama, I can see part of myself. In McCain I see much less of me. And as the campaign goes on longer and the lies and angry grow in McCain's campaign I see less and less everyday.

I am no son of  an admiral.

I did not marry a rich heiress.

I am not close to his age.

I have to look hard into the mirror to find myself in John McCain.

  Malcolm X was the first one to ever state that, not me.

Isn't he dead ? Time to let old rhetoric die also.

And Good Night.

Stands and claps. Tooo-shay, huh jazz?

Thats' for terrence

There are some so bllinded by their hatred of Bush and the Republicans they'd vote Hitler in if he was the Democrat.

Wow, that's the biggest crock of @!$%# I've heard in a longtime. Shows me exactly where you stand.

And it seems to me, you're the one with deaf ears, as you refused to respond to my citation-laden rebuttal of your "conclusion." Fact is, you're standing on a house of cards. Everything following your reference to Kurtz is a lot of fluff.

I think the truth is that you are simply being intellectually dishonest. Thank you for clarifying.

By the way, there was a time when I actually considered voting for McCain. In fact, I remember thinking to myself that, whatever happened, we'd be okay. Boy, has John McCain changed that view.

Totally blows your above insinuation out of the water.

Source, please?

Okay...  If you're ready to defend McCain's association with a former member of the KKK, well, then, I give up.  Your mind is made up, and closed up tight.  If I remember, maybe I'll come back in a year for that discussion about who was right and who was wrong.

WOW Lasir, You totally missed the point that 2 of the 3 people you state are DEMOCRATS!  What about Maxine Watters?  She's a BIGOT, by her deeds and actions.  But I guess since she is black, that don't matter, right?

And how Much did the Republican Campaign pay you to write this Crap?!

Don't ask for violin playing, PLEASE Jazzman.

You are insulting a lot of people here.

Jazzman wrote:

"Hey I even heard Colin Powell is going to vote Obama...now whats up with that?

(of course it has nothing to do with race...)"

General Powell's vote, if in fact he does vote for Sen. Obama, probably has more to do with how he was used  by the Republican conservatives to push the false justification for invading Iraq than it does Obama's race. In an act of true contrition, he resigned his cabinent post soon thereafter. Personally, I'd be surprised to see him vote any other way. However, please post the source of this citation. Thanks.

After Colin Powell resigned, he effectively removed himself from the glare of the George Bush war movement, a movement he contributed to but was obviously unhappy with.  Perhaps his vote is against an unjust war, and may have nothing to do with race. 

This source is also strange - it is hard to discern between the authors opinion, and Powell's opinion. The author seems to make a couple of short direct quotes and then seems to carry on paraphrasing but again it is not clear who said what.  I did not read that Powell was actually going to vote for Obama.  

This is more than just working with someone you have a few disagreements with.  Did you read the whole article or just bits and pieces.

I am amazed at the lack of humility and especially by the lack of compassion from those who have claimed to be Jazzman's friends in the past.  All of a sudden, everyone is jumping ship because Jazzman had a revelation which in turn, was truth. Even I can see this was painful for him to face that the so called "perfect" candidate was indeed not as flawless as previously thought. 

To the African American community, I say to vote for this candidate because you think he is a good man and he's going to help the black community is not going to happen.  Welcome to the world of politics.  I've been voting for white men who make claims of helping me and others but it just doesn't work that way.  I see a lot of white voters who think by voting for Obama, it makes them feel more connected to the African American voters.  Are you kidding me?  This is not why you vote for an individual running for the highest office in this country.  And, if what Jazzman says is true, and I do believe him, why would you vote for this man with past connections of someone who bombed buildings and killed others?  You think this comparison is the same as McCain with Bush?  Are you nuts? 

Obama is going to win the election and he will be the catalyst in making our country a socialist country.  Too many people are being swayed by his charisma and his way of making you feel as if he is talking to you directly.  But, what I find sad is those who are friends of Jazzman make him out to be of little consequence.  It belittles not Jazzman but you, all of you who would make him out to be a traitor for following the facts and the truth.

So you don't think that Todd Palin and his leanings influence Palin, who cc's him on governmental emails?

You do know that Palin gave a speech at the AIG, right?

<blockquote>Her husband was a member of the group and Palin has addressed the group as early as THIS year! The organization has, as one of its goals, secession from the United States.</blockquote>

http://www.gopolitico.com/2008/10/palin-wants-to-play-association-game.html

Sorry bout the link, my linking function is missing...

GUESS WHAT?  It is a states right to seceed from the union if they want.  Just like it is their RIGHT to join the union if they want.  If they feel the need to and can get the the state legislature to agree, THEY CAN DO IT IF THEY WANT TO....It is THEIR RIGHT!

Great article. No one can claim the author was biased or racist
  I believe that alot of people can claim that the author is biased or racist.  People can claim that because of all the racism that is spread throughout the African-American community. Not white vs. black but black on black racism that stems all the way back to slavery times.  When they white man used techniques to keep the black people separated by treating some better than others.  I'm not saying that this man unintentionally has some lingering effects of that sort of thing.  But i would be interested to know if maybe he should look at his own views towards Obama and see if maybe the reason he believes what he said is in fact just part of that racism that has been conditioned into blacks.  He says he is just stating the "truth", but i think that maybe he has been blinded by that truth.  He doesn't want to be judged and yet has no issue about judging others.  Are we all to be judged simply by the worst thing we have ever said or thought or done?  Not by the sum of our endeavors?  Can we not grow as people or are we always the same stagnant never moving?  If so, then we are all doomed. 

Gee, I wonder how many Whites I can find who support Obama?

The notion that, because the author is Black, he offers some sort of special perspective is shallow. I could care less about the race of the author. And the notion that he "knows" Obama, because he has some friends who are a certain way, and because he almost fell in with the "wrong crowd" is laughable.

The proper term is "I COULDN'T care less". And if you don't care then get of the Vine.

Oh my, the grammar police! *rollseyes*

And if you don't care then get of [sic] the Vine.

My comment has nothing to do with staying on or off the Vine. Question. Do you guys get a pass from the reading comprehension police? If not, I'd watch my step.

Original M,  There IS no proper term.  The thought can be stated as a low measure (couldn't) or as sarcasm (could).  It is colloquially accepted both ways. Your point is moot and your entire comment was both rude and intolerant to CA. 

Additionally, you missed his point. He said: "I could care less about the race of the author."  Which is very ecumenical of him, especially considering the volatile divisiveness of race as evidenced by some posts here. 

Please have a bit more respect for others and you will find they mostly respond in kind.

Regards

You mean he is scared he is becoming an American. Who can't lean on the crutch of being different and therefore should not be given things that others, who are not different, have always had to work for ?

Jazzman, before you respond to any comment be sure to read it at least three times. You have made enemies today. I wish you the best of luck.

Marno:  IMO you have posted the best example of NO VALUE.  You're words are also rude, and offensive.  

Juno Hera, you're right; those words are rude and offensive, made even more so by the fact that I do not know - nor do I profess to know, jazzman646. Indeed, I suspect that he is an educated and thoughtful man. His writing certainly reflects as much.

What I wrote is so incredibly offensive and yet entirely baseless. Therein lies the point. I didn't write it to pick on jazzman646 specifically, but as an illustration of everything that's being written or said about Sen. Obama with no grounding in fact. Sen. Obama has never refuted the fact that he knows Bill Ayers. But does that mean that he agrees with Ayers' views past or present? Or could it be that by serving on the board of an organization that Bill Ayers happens to also serve on furthered his political ambitions? Is that opportunism or idealism..?

Does anyone really believe that Sen. Obama agrees with the inciteful rants of Rev. Wright simply because he didn't get up and walk out of the church when those rants were blasted through the church's PA? Or could it be that members of the church's congregation were in Barack Obama's constituency and to have abandoned the church and thus Rev. Wright would have been seen as to have abondonded his constituents..? Again, opportunism or idealism..?

The most curious thing about all of this to me, a conservative, mid-west raised white man, is that Barack Obama was raised as much as a white kid as I was. I don't know his grandmother personally, but I certainly identify with his upbringing (though he admittedly did live in a much more temperate climate than I). To suggest to me that Barack Obama has cast aside that upbringing and adopted the radical '60s anti-war '60s of Ayers or the inciteful ideals of Rev. Wright just does not pass the most basic of sniff tests in my view. I've associated with some pretty suspect characters over the years to get to where I am today with my business including leveraging the relationships of a former dictator and his cronies, but did those associations ever influence my world view? Not once. So why associate with them. Simple opportunism.

In my opinion, the only thing Barack Obama has not been honest with the American public about is his opportunistic instincts. But therein lies the nature of the political beast.

April, you should really read Obama's first book.  He goes into great detail about his childhood and how his opinions were formed.  I believe you would be shocked to read some of the things he says.....and this isn't republicans saying it....it's in his own words.  Vote for Obama if you like, but at least be informed about who your voting for.  He clearly states who he is in his first book.

Thanks for the advice Mike, but I did and I'm still ready to cast my vote for him.  Sorry to disappoint.

Well April, if you read his first book, then you can't dispute anything said in this article.  You can vote for him, and that fine with me.  But you can't say you read his first book and then try to dispute anything that Jazzman wrote.

I can indeed. Being angry about racism is not being a black nationalist. If you were treated unfairly just because of the color of your skin, you feel anger, confusion. hurt and resentment because people don't see you, they see your color. I understand because I've been there. I remember the look of pain on my mother's face when I asked why a child of a different color refused to play with me because her mother told her not to. My mother had to tell me the truth and I could not understand what would make them feel the way that they did. But, I can successfully put these feelings aside, rise above them if you will, and treat people the way I want to be treated, no matter how they treat me. In order not to become a defeated, negative person, you must do this and I believe Obama does. I have friends of all races because I overcame the pain and realize everyone isn't so close minded. I think when Obama meets a racist he thinks of the white mother who gave birth to him and loved him dearly. I think of my friend in AK who is Caucasian and an awesome man. So no Mike, expressing your feelings of hurt, your anger and your pain does not mean that all of a sudden you will turn into a 21st century Black panther. You're just being honest, which is what a lot of people are afraid to do when it comes to race.

I agree April.  I don't believe that there is a black in this country that hasn't had to combat some sort of racism, from my daughter (just this year) constantly being called a @!$%# at school to my husband who is preparing to go to Iraq being called a @!$%# by other white soldiers in his company.  It hurts but, we can't let it the pain control our actions.

SHON you're misinformed.  That kind of racism does not exist in the Military services unless they are bantering the word back and forth in jest.  Which your husband probably actively participated in.  6 years Marine Corps here, so I know of what I speak.  The military services is probably the best melting pot there is on the smallest scale, so Please don't spew what you don't know.  There may be sexism, but racism there isn't.

Oh, and in the off chance that he was called that "N" word, he needs to become familiar with and utilize the UCMJ to his advantage.  He should know what that is.  If he hasn't then he isn't too offended, is he.

B2theRight....were you in the same battalion as Shon's husband to know what was said? Were you sitting in the room? Don't try to refute Shon's post becase you were in the military. If you weren't there and weren't a victim of it, you don't know what actually went on. I mean, no racist would EVER join the military. It's statistically impossible. Around 500,000 soldiers, not one bigot!

Did I get the gist of your response?

o my husband who is preparing to go to Iraq being called a @!$%# by other white soldiers in his company.

Regardless of Keav's response above, I gotta call bull@!$%# on this one aslo. No Keav, I wasn't there either, but I'm a retired Msgt (22yrs.). In all that time, I could probably count on one hand (with fingers left over) the number of times I've heard a black person called a @!$%#, and in every single case, the offender was severely punished. Contrary to what anyone posting here believes, that kind of behavior is absolutely not tolerated in the military!

As B2theRight! correctly points out, he has the UCMJ at his disposal... all he has to do is report the offense, the military justice system will take care of the rest.

B2theRight,

Im sorry if my comment offended you.  But my statement was very true and yes action was taken.  I know that most of our military personnel are great people, doing their best to serve this country and the people.  I was hurt when i found out what happened to my husband because i have six children that i am now forced to raise alone.  My husband is being sent to serve our country and could die in the process, and someone had the Gall to call him out of his name.  I'm gonna be honest, every hate filled emotions and thought i have ever heard came rolling to the top of my head and in that moment i hated all white people all over the world.  But you know what, after a few long breaths i came back to my senses.  I will not let the actions of a few deter or under mind me as a person, or influence my judgements about a whole.  I am a good person.  Not because i'm black but because i am me.  I know that their are other good people out there, regardless of race creed or religion.  I will not let or believe that the actions of one reflect the attitudes of the many, no matter how much or often some people try to make me believe otherwise.

I do not have that response to any other Afro Americans.

Hm. Obama isn't any other 'Afro American' is he? In fact, as President, he would be the most powerful 'Afro American' in the world.

Maybe that's what "is just not right with the picture." It is certainly easy to deny bigotry when you refuse to face it. Of course, that is exactly why it remains such a strong force.

Gina, this is an awesome "dear John" letter. Make this an article, please!!