Barack Obama Revealed, A Dire Warning from an African American...

The shat may be about to hit the fan, Right wing blogs are strongly hinting that Ayers was mentoring Obama for years before Obama claims he met the man. Sadly, Obama has already lied repeatedly about his knowledge of Rev Wright's views. If he is lying again about Ayers, it could throw the whole shebang up for grabs. Nervous moments will ensue in Camp Obama.

Jazzy, my friend, give it up! :o)...You are really clutching at straws here! LOL

Obama might not be 'experienced' or perfect but he's a darn sight better than McCain.

Let me put it to everyone like this - Barack Obama has claimed that he was completely unaware that Rev Wright was a racialist, Black Nationalist, proponent of BLT. For almost 20 years. You would think that Obama was some sort of goody two shoes boy scout or whatever, who was oblivious to the world of radical politics. Now right wing web sites, and other forms of anti- Obama (as in pro Clinton) websites are popping up with 'evidence' that Obama was active in radical politics since he arrived in Chicago, including flirtations with socialist groups and other anti-capitalist entities.

If any of this is shown to be true, who will be able to believe that Obama didn't know Wright's true nature? Hell, it will appear that he JOINED  TUCC because Wright was radical and black nationalist.

But after reviewing all the Stanley Kurtz material on Barack Obama/Bill Ayers relationship, I've come to the conclusion

this is where i stopped reading, as if to imply that youre an indipendent source. gimie a break.

im pretty sure you had your mind made up a long time ago

Oh, Puhleez! Remember those chummy pictures of Rumsfeld and Mr. Uber-scary-nasty-mean-killer-terrorist Saddam Hussein?  What about the palsy-walsy interactions of our Republican-led government with Saddam & Co. when we supplying him with all the coolest military toys....oh yeah, didn't our government also supply weapons and such to a guy named bin Laden?  I do believe conservatives were all about that at the time.  And the same Saudis you see pictured all cozy with Bush & Co. finance those spewing a"death-to-America" Wasabi rhetoric that's vastly more vitriolic and hate-filled than Ayers views. 

Each of the above examples features individuals much more appropriately labeled "terrorist" than Ayers.  Yet I hear nothing denouncing the strong Republican association with known terrorists.  Why is that?

This partisan hypocrisy trivializes the word terrorist, and all that is meant by it.

Oh, Puhleez! Remember those chummy pictures of Rumsfeld and Mr. Uber-scary-nasty-mean-killer-terrorist Saddam Hussein?  What about the palsy-walsy interactions of our Republican-led government with Saddam & Co. when we supplying him with all the coolest military toys....oh yeah, didn't our government also supply weapons and such to a guy named bin Laden?  I do believe conservatives were all about that at the time

We were supposed to be using Hussein and Bin Laden for our purposes. That was the point of American involvement with them. In that vein, was Obama using Ayers or was Ayers using Obama?

Kudos Jazz, for standing up for the principles of the matter, even in the face of your own sorrow.

Iy truly hurt me to write this article, but the truth has to be told

Yes, it must has been very painful, Jazzy. I bet you also had some crocodile tears running down because of the pain? I can see them from here, poor thing.  :o)

I just hope our political differences won't prevent us having lunch (or maybe even dinner)

Not at all....I favour dinner myself at the Ritz. Shall I make the reservation from now?...:o)

that's one incoherent, mixed up screed you wrote, jazzman

this portion is particularly contradictory and ultimately incomprehensible:

"But although I can identify with the Obama's,, feelings I can't stay silent in the thought that this type of radicalism may soon sit as the executive head of our government. I feel African Americans in our sometimes blind rage about racism, have made many unholy alliances with less than stellar elements of the white community on a quest to press to their own agendas, to the detriment of ours."

So even though you attribute a kind of sickness to him (and yourself), although he by all appearances keeps it hidden and you confess to it, you redeem yourself by confessing and implicating him, I conclude.

What if he is, as he appears to be, a cool calm serene quietly determined man who, whatever his influences has either learned from them, overcome or moved beyond them to show over 18 months of the pressure, scrutiny and outright attacks of this campaign, that he has character and capability?

Don't most of us now have some basis to conclude that having survived jumping through all these hoops that he is not keeping hidden some dark dastardly part of his character?

Why should your projections on him be of any import?

No offense to you or anyone else, but if you've ever heard the expression, its a black thang, well this is probably one of those.

You keep saying that, yet you keep stating things that don't seem to jibe with the views of very many black people.

Jazz unfortunately I think your entire article is about as disingenuous as one could get. 

The fact that you are willing to make a psychological attack on all of us by disregarding history and describing to us the last part of a story is quite frankly disgusting. Powerful words but I"m going to tell you why.

While Bill Ayers was wrong with what he did, the 60's was a time where there was much turmoil. We had the Vietnam War which wasn't a war of necessity. In addition to this you had The Draft with larger and larger quotas, to offset the larger and larger casualties. During this time you had members of our society go AWOL, including President George W. Bush, and demonstrations held on Capital Hill, the White House, the White House lawn, and finally riots within most colleges across this ENTIRE country.

This same psychological mind play revolves around Reverend Wright too. Did he say somethings that were harsh? yup. Did he say things that may have gone too far? possibly. However, when you take issue with his words, and don't bother to understand the context from which they arise it's disingenuous and disgusting.

It's disgusting because your making an assumption that the American population is too stupid to remember something that only happened within the last 40 - 50 years. This period is taught in middle school and is important enough that colleges have courses which focus on the 60's and 70's alone.

Therefore I urge you to tread lightly when picking the worse parts of our history without providing the context. You just might cause someone to shout "kill him" or "terrorist" within a crowd which could bring forth the pain and injustice within our history that you so willingly left out.

This election must not be about 2 men.  It must be about which way they will direct and heal this country.  It should be about which direction would be most successful.

The "warning" should be ....not to be distracted on either side. Period.

Christian Church of Jesus Christ, and speak the type of race hatred and vitriol he did before his congregation every Sunday.

It was totally out of context with the teachings of Christ, and that's the only context which counts in a true Christian Church.

Don't get me started. I think *most* Christian Churches are totally out of context with the teachings of Christ.

Sure it's the topic. If you're saying people should be concerned with the sort of things Obama might hear in a Church that *you* think is not Christ-like, well...

I'm countering that I don't see it all that out of the ordinary, or beyond the pale of what you might here and disagree with in *any* Church. I think they're all pretty despicable, and other than seeing them as a foil to the pointless claims about Obama's private worship, I think they're all pretty irrelevant next to topics of substance. The American public apparently does, too.

Palin's, for example, rivals TUCC on just about any metric.

So, don't bring up Church and Christ-like behavior if you don't want to go into whether it's better or worse than other churches.

with all due respect, and no offense meant, anyone white , with no real connection or insight into the attitude or thinking of the black community , doesn't have much to stand on in criticizing my statements.

Um...  Sorry, sir, but that is probably one of the most blatantly racist statements I've seen to date on the NewsVine.  Granted, I haven't been here long, but I'm mindblown that you actually wrote that.  I'll be taking my opinion, placing you on Ignore, and going on my way.  I'll at least do you the courtesy of letting you know that that one statement blew any credibility you might have had, at least with one reader.

Don't bring religion into this when very few us lead lives that would be considered Christian. Going to war with another country that has NOT attacked us isn't Christian either. Therefore if you are going to try and act on the behalf of God you should probably speak from the whole word instead of assassinating His teachings by using just the passages that provide meaning to your cause.

with all due respect, and no offense menaty, anyone white , with no real connection or insight into the attitude or thinking of the black community , doesn't have much to stand on in criticizing my statements.

There isn't any respect in your words, as you assume that I don't have the background to base my comments. I am African American, with a family tree which dates back to Jamestown and further. I won't call you a traitor but I will take issue with your words as they lack the context, like me being African American.

In addition, you didn't provide the full historical account. The 60's and 70's were a time where, unlike the actions taken by Bill Ayers, many lives were lost by the hands of our government, by the hands of racists, and by the hands of African Americans who searched for an avenue for their anger.

You have a right to voice your own opinion. However, you do NOT have a right to distort the history of America. Nor do you have the right to use your skin color as a basis for your arguments against Obama, when the lives lost within the African American and Euro American community have provided the foundation and the rights for your skin color to take part within this discussion. My forefathers have fought and most likely yours as well to provide you with the stage to voice your opinion today. Therefore, when you call Obama "radical" when the entire decade of the 60's and 70's were radical (context), and exclude the the historical reference which provides the context for being "radical" it's disingenuous.

Jazz

It is simply baffling to me why the McCain campaign hasn't been running ads on this for the past number of weeks and it should certainly be brought up somehow by him in the final debate. As I've pointed out constantly the issue is not Ayers's past as a terrorist, it's his "present" as an unreconstructed Marxist-Leninist which anyone could tell, should they actually desire to learn something about him in this regard, by reading his blog replete with red star. And if that's not enough one can read Sol Stern's excellent City Journal critique of Ayers:

. . .As Ayers puts it in one of his course descriptions, prospective K–12 teachers need to "be aware of the social and moral universe we inhabit and . . . be a teacher capable of hope and struggle, outrage and action, a teacher teaching for social justice and liberation." Ayers's texts on the imperative of social-justice teaching are among the most popular works in the syllabi of the nation's ed schools and teacher-training institutes. One of Ayers's major themes is that the American public school system is nothing but a reflection of capitalist hegemony. Thus, the mission of all progressive teachers is to take back the classrooms and turn them into laboratories of revolutionary change.

Unfortunately, neither Obama nor his critics in the media seem to have a clue about Ayers's current work and his widespread influence in the education schools. In his last debate with Hillary Clinton, Obama referred to Ayers as a "professor of English," an error that the media then repeated. Would that Ayers were just another radical English professor. In that case, his poisonous anti-American teaching would be limited to a few hundred college students in the liberal arts. But through his indoctrination of future K–12 teachers, Ayers has been able to influence what happens in hundreds, perhaps thousands, of classrooms.

Ayers's influence on what is taught in the nation's public schools is likely to grow in the future. Last month, he was elected vice president for curriculum of the 25,000-member American Educational Research Association (AERA), the nation's largest organization of education-school professors and researchers. Ayers won the election handily, and there is no doubt that his fellow education professors knew whom they were voting for. In the short biographical statement distributed to prospective voters beforehand, Ayers listed among his scholarly books Fugitive Days, an unapologetic memoir about his ten years in the Weather Underground. The book includes dramatic accounts of how he bombed the Pentagon and other public buildings.

And Obama, as head of the fiscal arm of the Annenberg Challenge, was responsible for steering funding to leftwing groups like the frauds at ACORN that Ayers is in bed with and which he too was in bed with when he was a young Chicago politico on the rise. Anyone who cares a whit about primary and secondary education in this country wouldn't allow Bill Ayers or any of his acolytes within 20 miles of a public school. Apparently, that's not a class that includes Barack Obama.

And Obama, as head of the fiscal arm of the Annenberg Challenge

Glad you brought up Annenburg, becuase  HIS WIFE ENDORSED MCCAIN..... don't believe me... go to McCain's website and look up his top 100 contributers. So now that McCain supports terrorists too.... who are you going to vote for?

I believe Barack Obama is one of those people with a basic belief that America is an evil and racist nation that needs radical change.

I believe the same thing, jazz. Today on the radio I heard him say he was going to change America and the world. Really? How so? Has he spoken with them? Going for some regime change?

So, don't bring up Church and Christ-like behavior if you don't want to go into whether it's better or worse than other churches.

I respect Jazz opinion about this, but in my opinion the TUCC issue isn't even about religion, and to make it about religion not only misses the point but encourages the ubiquitous atheists to automatically discount any concerns about it. TUCC is all about psychologically separating blacks and whites , theology, Black Liberation Theology, is just the method that is used.

1.8 - Extreme

At the time that Secretary Fumsfeld was shaking hands with Saddam Hussain, Saddam was the balance vs Iran, plus that's the job of the Secretaries when visiting foreign countries.  They were not raising funds together.

Say it ain't so Jazzman.  I bet this really "hurt" you.  Wow.

Kc77

That's a weak rejoinder even by the standards of an Obamaite where the bar is quite low in that regard. The late Ambassador Walter Annenberg, founder of TV Guide, who also funded the Annenberg School of Journalism at the University of Pennsylvania and at USC, died in 2002 but before he died he gave hundreds of millions of dollars in philathrophy all over the country. The Annenberg Challenge was a $500 million program of national scope designed as seed money to reform and better the nation's urban schools. Annenberg delegated authority in this regard vis-a-vis finding partners in each locale to one of his pro bono advisers Vartan Gregorian, former president of Brown University, former president of the New York City Public Library, etc. Further, the process had to meet with the approval of the Daley the Younger machine in Chicago and the teachers unions. The "challenge" was a massive failure for the most part as one would expect considering its local "experts" like community organizer Barry Obama and his neighbor Billy Ayers. Given the fact that the Ford Foundation, founded by the notable rightwinger Henry Ford, has come to be one of the leading funders of leftist causes in this country anyone familiar with how these huge philathropic organizations come to develop wouldn't be at all surprised by the outcome in Chicago.

That's a weak rejoinder even by the standards of an Obamaite where the bar is quite low in that regard.

Exactly thanks for proving my point. Since when do we use separations from Kevin Bacon to test a validity of someone's character?

 since there are not very many black people on NV, and the few that are have not disputed what I've stated. in any great number.

anyone white , with no real connection or insight into the attitude or thinking of the black community , doesn't have much to stand on in criticizing my statements.

It seems that not only is this article not well informed, neither is your perception of newsvine.

Very few people with dark skin will ever bother to comment on this kind of nonsense. The only appropriate response would be a severe and wide-ranging violation of the CoH. Suffice to say, many saw your post, had a few vile words ring in their minds, and then moved on.

Jazz, Still continuing the read although it mystifies me why.  Hope you can clear up a conundrum.

You stated:  It was totally out of context with the teachings of Christ, and that's the only context which counts in a true Christian Church.

Then Brian Ford said:  Don't get me started. I think *most* Christian Churches are totally out of context with the teachings of Christ.

Then back to you:  I'm not going there, not the topic.

My question: How is it not the topic when it directly responds to your comment?  I understand that you don't like what is being said, but really, in the interest of fairness, this reply was NOT off topic.  If you are going to 'put it out there' you can't cry foul when directly responded to.

Okay.... I think it's important to find out about BOTH candidates. This way you can at least says you were informed. It doesn't sway my vote, but I do appreciate the time it took to research it and express your views. I still do not want Mccain as the Commander and Chief. I don't really trust either one of them. They are politicians...not my neighbors. I don't agree with a LOT of your views. But that's fine too, No, I don't think you should run for President. :) This election year is bad enough. Plus, remember in an election even these words can come back to haunt you. o.O

Jazzman:  What a brave man you are.  As an over-50 White woman from Mississippi, I know about the pre- and post-civil rights era of the Black Panthers, KKK, and MLK, because I lived it, too.  During the 60’s, there were car bombings, cross-burnings, riots on campus when the first Black students were bused to our all White high school, and martial law in towns across Mississippi.  On the TV, I watched bombings and riots in the streets across the country.  It was a volatile time in our country’s history.  MLK went a long way to calm the masses with his peace message, but then was assassinated by a White man.  Blacks were angry and rightly so.  Over time, I believe the White community has done much to make amends—maybe too much.  (See http://www.urbancure.org.)  The welfare state that developed, coupled with the current economic crisis, is a recipe for disaster.

Most of Obama’s supporters are too young to know about that time, and unfortunately, could care less.  But, HISTORY has a way of repeating itself.  I’m worried that HISTORY IS repeating itself—another volatile time in our history with one significant difference.  The kids today—both Black and White—place very little value on HUMAN LIFE.  Here in my home town of Jackson, even the Black police officers are pleading with the Black gangs to stop killing each other.  Innocent Black children are getting shot by stray bullets from drive-by shooters in otherwise quiet neighborhoods.  A Black councilman has stood in front of local pawn shops to publicize illegal handguns being sold to underage teenagers.  Call it what you will, but violence and killing in Jackson is gang related and gangs are a by-product of angry radicals.

The Black community suggests that electing Obama would positively CHANGE the racial environment in America and would be a role model for young Blacks.  I do not.  While I appreciate the historical value of the first Black President of the United States, I cannot find myself voting for THIS Black man because of the influences and relationships he had/has with radicals.  For me, where there is smoke, there is usually fire, and the fact that the media refuses to take these alliances seriously only exacerbates it for me. (See http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/5471.)  Only Obama and Michelle knows the REAL OBAMA.  He may look like a businessman from Wall Street and talk eloquently like MLK, but is in reality, Obama is a deep-rooted angry street kid.

Most of Obama’s supporters are too young to know about that time, and unfortunately, could care less.

I would argue that there are few generations *as informed* as those you're referencing when you say "most of Obama's supporters" and find it insulting that you assume that -- because people support someone you don't support -- that it's because they're uninformed.

He may look like a businessman from Wall Street and talk eloquently like MLK, but is in reality, Obama is a deep-rooted angry street kid.

Once again, someone so allegedly rooted in history offers no evidence, beyond her own suspicion hidden behind a few words of support for those poor black kids who are the victims of "violent youths and radicals".

Your empathy would seem more appropriate if you weren't using it as a way to hold down a black man, simply because you don't support him, based on tenuous associations with a former radical. 

One Party you need to review the CoH. Calling people stupid is a clear violation of it. The rest of your post indicates clearly a  twisted view of the world completely divorced from reality. But that's your bag, I'll let you drag it.

I apologize. Truly. I should have said the full thought which was ...you are stupid for standing on a stupid position and backing stupid claims. There is a saying "stupid is, as stupid does". Which would in essence say, you may be intelligent in other areas, but your out of your mind, for supporting such an erroneous position.

So, if I have offended you or anyone or even Jazzman, I do apologize for the "you are stupid statement"Everything else stands and I'm be willing to debate anyone on it.

One Party? Like one communist party? Like elimanate anyone who disagrees with you party? Like call people stupid and then say you will pray for them party?

Waynster,You claim McCain's white supremist connection is a divorce from reality? OK, do your research, his relationship with those guys are much stronger than an Obama or Ayers.2nd, you are a little delusional too my friend.  I'm from NYC and I know many corporate white collar criminals, who get away with major crimes consistently. Just because its dressed up in politics doesn't make it any more legal or right. Does it?So am I a criminal for working with these white collar criminals only because its my job.  It's my job to elbow with them, laugh, gather, etc. Yet, if I my work didn't entail me to deal with them at all, I wouldn't.\Obama was years old when Ayers was a hippie.  Ayers is 17 years older than Obama.  How many people you know who's best friends are 17 years older than them....That's like hanging out with your mother.    You're relationships are peers you can associate with, people around your age with common interests.  This post and your comments are a joke. As is the McCain camp.Where is this deep relationship with Ayers everyone is saying?  If I have a deep relationship then I'm in contact over the years to this day.  Ayers was some hippie dude who said screw America like most of you hippies.  He was probably druged up and threatene to blow up the world. So what became of him?Oh, he worked in education reform, curriculum and I quote (not of my own words) "He is now a professor in the College of Education at the University of Illinois at Chicago , holding the title of Distinguished Professor ."So it's a stretch. Terrorist don't become college professors.  I know 16 year old kids that are more dangerous than Ayers right now... ha ha ha.  So Jazzman, yeah...  if you grew up in those times, and "know" Barack "types", then why should we trust what you are saying.Yeah....   I'll carry my bag because there is a lot of reality in there.

Jazzman, or whatevere your name is.

1. I don't know you, but your views are twisted. (how's that community)

2. What do you aim to gain by posting your photo? stop flaunting yourself, true confidence is in subtly and quietness.

3. You have no facts to support your claim. Obama worked with Ayers on a Charity Board. I've worked with many many evil people. You yourself, probably have communed with criminals, either family, friends, neighborhood, if what you are saying is true about your own background. I'm AA too, so I know you do. 

4. This makes you a total hypocrit because if we should be cautious of Obama, the nwe should be cautious of you and this post since you too in essence "are from the same block"

5.Next time think before going against what is right. Do you think we should support the slanderous, racist, John McCain, who has had ties with a White Supremicist , Mike Huckabee, Ron Paul and Don Black and calls Obama "that one".

Stop looking in the mirror and hating yourself.  I'll pray for you.

The Original Mac ,

I explained an apologized. I just didn't finish the thought. What more do you want me to do. Jump through a hoop and roll over. If you can't accept an apology then you should work on forgiveness.

See, I can make a mistake and be forgiven because I can forgive others... and pray for them. Let anyone who has never made a simple error in their entire life condemn me.

The statement was incomplete and honestly I didn't take it as serious as this board and again have apologized to the whole community and Jazzman.

So before you point the finger check your integrity now and forgive.... let it go. I have made other comments that present a strong argument. How bout you tackle those.

Furthermore, I just debated his views. Whether anyone agrees or disagree is up to them. So save your communist party because I'm not russian, a communist or anything or any where close to what Palin can see out of her window.

A thought provoking article.

I am in my 30s so I do not recall the 60s radicalism. Hence I appreciate your first hand opinion of the radical associations.

 Obama's association with Rev Wright who claims that the US purposely created AIDs, and who thinks it is okay to ridicule The Kennedys' Boston accent, as well as all the other hate mongering he has shared... is very upsetting coming from a preacher.

I could understand if Wright was a political pundit.....but a preacher?  A preacher should be unifying people not attempting to divide them through hate speak.

Early on I did carefully consider Obama because like everyone else I am ready for Change in America.

Obama's associations, although upsetting, actually bother me less...maybe naively so... than his Jimmy Carter style tax an spend proposals.

The economy was in the toilet during the Carter Administration based on historical accounts.

Rev. Wright has no proof of his claims. But please understand, the Government did give syphilis to an entire black community as a test experiment.  This is documented and well known. Stuff like that affects a person and scars them deeply.

Please research the associations yourself. You'll see there is no validity to them. Or, maybe you will. But look at the age difference, how and why they met and the contact they have had after.

Also, I took the extra step to research Ayers.  Who is Ayers? That's the real question if Obama has these so called ties.

In my finding, I found he was a hippie in the late 60s, from which I've learned being in my mid 30's, that most hippies were anti Gov't and opposed the war and not only that but demonstrated frequently and strongly. The Gov't arrested many of them for rioting and causing disturbences.

Ayers biggest act was a plan to blow up a statue. But what got me was reading what Ayers have become. He has been awarded Citizen of the Year.  So I read further to see how a former terrorist get's a Citizen of the Year award. And is named a distinguished professor at the University of Chicago, which is a well known established university.

Please don't get cuaght in McCain's propaganda and form your own opinion.  I also found information on McCain's associations and his acts in the senate, such as not demanding removal of the Confederate flag in N.C. offices. He also was connected to White Supremicist , Mike Huckabee, Ron Paul and Don Blac.

So McCain should be lucky I'm not running because I would throw that right in his face. And the fact that Palin's husband is a member of the Alaskan Indpenedent Party, a party that has a leader that hates America and wanted Alaska to be it's own country. Palin is also currently under investigation and not cooperating.

Then I realize, man, Obama has more integrity than me because I would bury McCain...  and the pray for him for The Original Mac, righ Mac?  ha ha ha.

This was Ayers radical days....  It's bad, I'll be honest but I want to prove something here. That he was 1. A hippie radical, that most hippies agreed on him with. Because Ayers opposed the Vietnam War (if most people will be honest, they will tell you they were in some riots themselves. But he never KILLED anyone. These acts were protest acts.

Now I don't agree with them, but I just want people to know certain truths about who he was and who he is now.

Years underground

In 1970 he "went underground" with several associates after the Greenwich Village townhouse explosion , in which Weatherman member Ted Gold , Ayers' close friend Terry Robbins , and Ayers' girlfriend, Diana Oughton , were killed when a nail bomb (an anti-personnel device) they were assembling exploded. Kathy Boudin and Cathy Wilkerson survived the blast. Ayers was not facing criminal charges at the time, but the federal government later filed charges against him.^[2] Ayers participated in the bombings of New York City Police Headquarters in 1970, the United States Capitol building in 1971, and The Pentagon in 1972, as he noted in his 2001 book, Fugitive Days . Because of a water leak caused by the Pentagon bombing, aerial bombardments during the Vietnam War had to be halted for several days. Ayers writes:

Although the bomb that rocked the Pentagon was itsy-bitsy - weighing close to two pounds - it caused 'tens of thousands of dollars' of damage. The operation cost under $500, and no one was killed or even hurt. ^[13]

While underground, he and fellow member Bernardine Dohrn married, and the two remained fugitives together, changing identities, jobs and locations. By 1976 or 1977, with federal charges against both fugitives dropped due to prosecutorial misconduct (see COINTELPRO ), Ayers was ready to turn himself in to authorities, but Dohrn remained reluctant until after she gave birth to two sons, one born in 1977, the other in 1980. "He was sweet and patient, as he always is, to let me come to my senses on my own", she later said.^[2] The couple turned themselves in to authorities in 1980. Ayers and Dohrn later became legal guardians to the son of former Weathermen David Gilbert and Kathy Boudin after the boy's parents were convicted and sent to prison for their part in the Brinks Robbery of 1981 .^[14]

OK, that was the worst of Ayers.--------------------------------------

William Charles "Bill" Ayers (born 26 December 1944)^[1] is an American elementary education theorist and former leading 1960s anti-war activist. He is known for the radical nature of his activism in the 1960s and 1970s as well as his current work in education reform , curriculum , and instruction. In 1969 he cofounded the violent radical left organization the Weather Underground which was active during the 1960s and 1970s. He is now a professor in the College of Education at the University of Illinois at Chicago , holding the title of Distinguished Professor .

Academic career

Ayers is currently a Distinguished Professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago, College of Education. His interests include teaching for social justice , urban educational reform, narrative and interpretive research, children in trouble with the law, and related issues.^[35]

He began his career in primary education while an undergraduate, teaching at the Children’s Community School (CCS), a project founded by a group of students and based on the Summerhill method of education. After leaving the underground, he earned an M.Ed from Bank Street College in Early Childhood Education (1984), an M.Ed from Teachers College, Columbia University in Early Childhood Education (1987) and an Ed.D from Teachers College, Columbia University in Curriculum and Instruction (1987).

He has edited and written many books and articles on education theory, policy and practice, and has appeared on many panels and symposia.

Civic and political life

Ayers worked with Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley in shaping the city's school reform program,^[36] and was one of three co-authors of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge grant proposal that in 1995 won $49.2 million over five years for public school reform.^[37] In 1997 Chicago awarded him its Citizen of the Year award for his work on the project.^[38] Since 1999 he has served on the board of directors of the Woods Fund of Chicago , an anti-poverty , philanthropic foundation established as the Woods Charitable Fund in 1941.^[39] According to Ayers, his radical past occasionally affects him, as when, by his account, he was asked not to attend a progressive educators' conference in the fall of 2006 on the basis that the organizers did not want to risk an association with his past.^[40]

Obama-Ayers Controversy

Main article: Obama–Ayers controversy

Bill Ayers and Barack Obama at one time lived in the same neighborhood in the city of Chicago , and both had worked on education reform in the state of Illinois . The two met "at a luncheon meeting about school reform."^[41] Obama was named to the Chicago Annenberg Challenge Project Board of Directors to oversee the distribution of grants in Chicago. Later in 1995, Ayers hosted "a coffee" for "Mr. Obama's first run for office."^[42] The two served on the board of a community anti-poverty group , the Woods Fund of Chicago , between 2000 and 2002, during which time the board met twelve times.^[42] In April 2001, Ayers contributed $200 to Obama's re-election fund to the Illinois State Senate.^[41] Since 2002, there has been little linking Obama and Ayers.^[42] The senator said in September 2008 that he hadn't "seen him in a year-and-a-half."^[43] In February 2008, Obama spokesman Bill Burton released a statement from the senator about the relationship between the two: "Senator Obama strongly condemns the violent actions of the Weathermen group, as he does all acts of violence. But he was an eight-year-old child when Ayers and the Weathermen were active, and any attempt to connect Obama with events of almost forty years ago is ridiculous."^[41] CNN 's review of project records found nothing to suggest anything inappropriate in the non-profit projects in which the two men were involved.^[44] Internal reviews by The New York Times , The Washington Post , Time magazine, The Chicago Sun-Times , The New Yorker and The New Republic "have said that their reporting doesn't support the idea that Obama and Ayers had a close relationship".^[45]

One Party - Thanks for that detailed background. Really should have been an article on your column in its own right, although due to the gravity of Jazzman's charge here, I think it has a place on this thread.

Jazzman's attempts at running for the Republican campaign through his column in this manner could be similar to "obstructing the course of justice" that might apply in a court case. It does not serve democracy very well if the right to free speech is used in this manner to influence the masses.

If the Republicans are resorting to these tactics (as they are), they are doing untold harm to their standing. Just an observation of a bystander.

You do not know how elated I am, to see another who understands the right of free speech.

I've had so many debate from people who doesn't understands its limits. Its a shame that they are Americans, who do not understand their own consitutional right.

Furthermore, with the threats of labeling Obama a terrorits, which is leading to remarks of "kill him", "off with his head" and the like, McCain should hope legal action isn't taken against him and his camp. Those slanderous statements are proving to be dangerous, considering what he may achieve.

To say that I am hated by some members on Newsvine for my stance on responsibilities that all citizens who enjoy the right to free speech have would be an understatement! But it is still true. And I will always defend my stance on that.

Rev. Wright has no proof of his claims. But please understand, the Government did give syphilis to an entire black community as a test experiment.  This is documented and well known. Stuff like that affects a person and scars them deeply.

Please research the associations yourself. You'll see there is no validity to them. Or, maybe you will. But look at the age difference, how and why they met and the contact they have had after.

You are posting a bunch of nonsensical garbage that people are letting pass by without comment, but I will stop for a second.

Where do you derive the notion that because someone did  A , it is okay to make up lie B  as a response? Rev Wright was asked at his National Press Club Q&A for his proof that the US  government had created HIV as a means of genocide against blacks. He responded by saying "have you heard of the Tuskogee experiment"?  That answer is one of the main reasons Obama cut off all ties with Wright the next day. On what planet do you prove something happened by referring to another thing altogether?

Rev Wright has been preaching racial separatism and racial animosity and perpetual racial grievance for 35 years, 17 of which coincide with Obama's membership in the church. Obama will never get out from under this massive failure of his character.

JohnRussell ,

Where do you derive the notion that because someone did  A , it is okay to make up lie B  as a response?

1. Please post my exact words of saying it was o.k.

2. I said he would have been affected deeply by it being around at that time. So I would understand his distrust.

Now here is a quote from my post that you quoted from

Rev. Wright has no proof of his claims.

Reading is fundamental. Try it.

 I do not.

Some African Americans will read this and brand me a traitor for this article. I say to them what good is changing America from what you may believe is bad to something much worse, for the small satisfaction of being able to say we have a black man in the White House.

So personally, with conflicting feeling about it, I'm rejecting the first African American nominated for the Presidency, for what I honestly believe is the future good and well being of this country.

I hope all those reading this will give serious consideration to what I present here, and do so too, 

Its always gonna be 1 negro trying to stop the process and swim up stream.  Your right you are gonna be branded a traitor. But not because of this article. But because your stupidity is the reason why I ( a black educated man) will always have to prove myself to progress in this world. You are also the very reason why Unfortunatly why I cannot trust my own kind. Your article will be viewed as Garbage just like all that trash that McCain and Palin is doing. Do use all a favor and don't write anything else. This has nothing to do with race or my support for Obama. Its about  Politics and what he can do for my future and my children.  

Jazzman,

   As much as I don't agree with your political stance or your tactics of late, gotta say you "manned up" wrote your opinion and signed your name to it. Kudos.

 Now, lol, let's just hope that's your picture and you're really not some white guy with a 2 day old beard a gut and wearing a "beater" shirt, striped shorts and socks with sandals with a cheap cigar hanging out of your mouth...haha

                                   Studi

Wow! What an interesting non-factual article and it sounds like some is very jealous of Barack Obama.  At the end of the day, nobody is going to pay any attention to this BS because people are more concerned on how they are going to survive but I got to hand it to you it was bold of you to write the article.

Obama/Biden 08

God Bless you Jazzman.  Thank you for taking the time to do your homework, instead of blindly following the socialist media in this country.  I wish every american would be as patriotic and do theri civic duty like you have done.

Jazz,

  I don't question your ethnic background actually, it was more of a joke, a bad joke at this point.

I just wanted to say you had your opinion, had the guts to write it and sign it and that deserves my respect whether I believe you are right or wrong.

                                                       Studi

Residents of Hawai'i (Obama's hometown) do not care what you look like or say we care what you do.  Most of us are two or more ethic backgrounds.

But since you want to play the race card.  Obama is 43% Arab, 7% Black, 50% Caucasian.  Does that make me more of a minority, residents of Hawai'i do not care.  actions speak louder than words.  Some one sold copy of birth certificate to newspapers. Arab from those slave traders that settled there (used to capture slaves) thoughout Africa (in this case Kenya).

This is about:  Corporate Board Member ownage of Corporate America!!!

Really upsetting is 58 to 59 minutes into Debate.
e section linsay trella 59 minutes.
health care, mandates needed.
"an example of government mandates.....liberal banking everyone goes to delaware for credit cards..."

OMG he just critized his Vice Presidential running mate, Senator Joseph Robinette Biden of Delaware.

These are the people funding the Obama Biden Campaign!!!!

You DO NOT make these people angry:
Delaware: Freddie Mac, Fanny Mae, Bank of America, Wilmington Trust, First USA / Bank One / JPMorgan Chase, AIG, Citigroup, Deutsche Bank, Barclays plc, GM, Chrysler, Lehnman Brothers, Wachovia, Country Wide, ISDA, and those Corporations Incorporated at Delaware.

My warning to all Americans both white and black (those AA's who can overcome the vote black impulse) is that in Barack Obama, you are not getting Bill Cosby, you are getting a very well disguised version of Louis Farrakhan.

Good article, Jazz.  I have to say, the Ayers connection actually doesn't bother me.  I believe all politicians have @!$%#ty acquaintances, and especially Chicago politicians. ;-)

But hey, I love Cosby, and loath Farakhan...I'd say, all in all, good piece, well written, and from the heart.  Keep it up.

Philosophy 101

If one of your premises is false, your conclusion will always be false.

Ayers and Obama are not associates.

Well written and well presented!!

Just remember, if you offend Obama, no matter if you are presenting an opinion, (1st ammendement anyone???), you will be labeled and attacked.

It seems no one can ask,about, question, or bring up Obamas affiliations, work history, abilities, experience, (etc) without being told they are small and petty.

I am tired of it.

If we cannot debate, discuss, engage in conversation, and perhaps say "NO, I do not support Obama" then are we all not losing?

replytoj001

Actually support who you will - discuss and debate what you want, but facts are always welcome when you accuse someone of something, facts borne out by more than just personal feelings.

Self examination might also help when assessing the worth of another.

That is what is at issue here, a person is entitled to his opinion, but to present them as facts or reasons to condemn someone else - then you will have to back those facts up with more substance than presented here or everyone in the room would surely be in trouble.  Guilt by association is not a standard that I apply to factual assessments, but you are welcome to them.  Just don't expect others to accept the same standards.

I was a Clinton supporter.  I respect the fact that you dont support Obama, however if you want to convince me to do the same you will have to provide more than your gut feelings to change my mind.  I welcome, debate discussion of facts.  That does not seem to be the standard set in this discussion by the author.  He seems to ignore the facts presented by others but he seems willing to talk a lot about himself. 

Yes. An Article with NO FACTS is nothing but spewed hate. Trying to claim you "know" Obama's "type" is also unfactual.

How can you stand on statements with no merit, and when posts ask for merit, you still don't present any.

It's not the fact no one can talk about Obama or question his associations, but once the question is out, then facts have to be presented.

You so called Americans, I say this because you act so unAmerican, should know you are innocent until PROVEN guilty.

Obama was 8 years old.  Where is he a radical? He said he was never there when Wright made those statements. No on has anything to show he was there. When he found out about them, he denounced Wright.  Wasn't that the right thing to do?

He has said, he worked with Ayers.  When you read the biography on Ayers posted above, he has done more for his community, and for the people and children of Chicago than people who just sit and judge him for opposing the Vietnam war, as many hippied did. Ayers is a Citizen of The Year Award winner.  How many of you can say that about yourselves?  To tell you the truth, I feel sorry for Ayers, who when you do your research, is a prominent figure in Chicago, in which as small segment of opposing a war in his life, is bought up for political gain. Why won't anyone talk about his accomplishments?

How many of you work with juvenile youth to set them on the right path? How many of you are a part of education reform? How many of you are a distinguished professor from a major University.

Obama didn't know Ayers until they worked together. Obama was trying to help the communities of Chicago.  To bring up Obama, is a friend of a terrorist is as low as any Devil can go in this matter.

If Jazzman states his words are factual and true, why is he not showing us proof of anything?

i admire you, man at least you are doing what u think is right 

Are you taking credit for this writing or are you going to provide a link to its source? The guy who wrote this is an anti obama quack and a consevative who has for years been trying to discredit him?

this is just a backdoor cheap shot that the right has been backing McCain with It is old news and I believe I read on here you were censured before for such activity. Post the source to prove what is said in this article which is just gibberish at this point and not worth reading.

Then who would you have people vote for??? One other thing that may have escaped your notice - Barack Obama grew up fully integrated to love both black and white (and I suspect brown and red and orange and green). He grew up completely differently than you and your hypothosis holds no water.

Jazzman, you're right -- you don't know Obama personally.  Neither do I.  Senator John Lewis knows Obama personally and he marched with Martin Luther King Jr.  He worked with MLK Jr. to stem white violence against blacks.  To win a fundamental right for all people to be seen as "people".  He supports Obama.  He's had access to him.  He has vetted him along with those close to Obama and Obama's detractors.  I won't forget Senator Lewis' account of his suffering during the civil rights movement and his commitment to not lead a bitter life.  No, I don't believe Senator Lewis is going to support anyone that would not live the life MLK Jr. would have supported.  Quite frankly, the MLK Jr. family was at the DNC to support Obama.  I was very shocked to read your seed article.

 (MLK Jr, Sen Lewis, etc) Their work was noble and enduring.  Obama's mother with his grandparents reared him in the best of Christian tradition -- with love and understanding, a guiding hand to learn, and a determination to have faith even in the face of great obstacles (lack of father, food stamps, etc)  Barack Hussein Obama is a living testament that two peoples can produce a son that wants the best for both.  Obama is together "white & black".  He's a good synthesis of the two.

I think your view of Obama as only an African American undermines America's ideals of individualism.   I also think your assertions that he is some kind of radical black sympathizer, or even a terrorist, are unfounded.  Even the GOP have admitted they can't win with these tired false arguments in trying to make him un-American or even worse to dehumanize him ("That one").  This is the worst of America and it does nothing to "heal old wounds or look to a better future" -- both of the themes that were and still continue to be a consistent message from Obama since the DNC.

I can only hope you reconsider.  It doesn't seem that you and Obama have the same thought process about what you saw at all.

I call it as I see It OREO with stock in a sheet factory

Have you thought that the person you're describing is yourself and not Obama?  Remember he had a white mother and was raised in a white household.  He also seems to be much more intelligent and blessed than you seem to have been in your life.  America has been very good to him.  He was born in 1961(?) and didn't leave Hawaii until age 18, which would make it 1979, well past the time you speak of.  Quit looking at yourself to describe someone else.  Your problems are your problems.  I guess we don't have to talk about women not being able to support women.  The same thing appears to be true in the black community unless the emotion is hatred and victimization.  What was it Jesse Jackson said about Obama?  Try to have some positive emotions.  It would be good for you.

All I see here is a convoluted op-ed with no real proof of any depth of the Barack Obama/Bill Ayers connection. The truth is that I don't routinely do criminal background checks on people I meet while doing business. Do you? I mean I must be some kind of weird guy that I would actually NOT do criminal background checks on EVERY individual I come into contact with. Now consider this. If you work in an office how many of your fellow employees have you thoroughly investigated? Do you know what they did when they were young adults? Do you know what your parents did verbatim when they were young? Are you sure? I mean good lord they might have done something criminal. That would mean you are not only associated with criminals. YOU ARE RELATED TO THEM!! That would mean we need to lock you up right? What if your friends have been contaminated? Oh man this crazy who you know thing is getting out of control. If your related to criminals then what you say must be a lie!! Oh wow funny how that is so easy.

This is sooooo unbelieveably stupid! Jazz has actually written his own article and wants us to take his OPINIONS as proof of wrongdoing on Obama's part??? C'mon people! Just because an African American says something about Obama doesn't make it true. So if a white woman says Palin is an alien then that should be considered fact as well I guess.. Jazz admits that he has NEVER met Obama. He does NOT know him!! Nor does he know anybody close to the Obamas, so HOW could be possibly know what he believes and thinks? And to attack Michelle for what she said! You've gone too far. Michelle was right! I am only proud of my country when we make smart and ethical decisions. Can you truly say that you are proud that your country elected Bust - TWICE?!?! Cos the world is laughing at that you know.
So you see Jazz.. Your so-called 'article' is PURE SPECULATION!!! Nothing more! Please STOP wasting our time.
And last but not least.. Ayers isn't the dangerous bomber he used to be.. he's reformed, and while he still holds passionate political views, he hasn't bombed anything in decades.. He's a professor now, so get over it already. And even though I condemn his methods, what he was fighting for was a just cause and many, MANY people who are his age were in those protests too. They tried to stop a senseless war which took the lives of thousands of Americans and psychologically damaged thousands of others.
There are SO MANY issues I have with your 'article' but I really don't have the time, or the will to point them all out, because some people will never listen to facts over their own misguided opinion. So all I'll say is SHAME ON YOU for attempting to validate the beliefs of racists and white-supremists. Shame on you..

Um? So, this guy tried to kill people. But like that was years ago? So um? let it go? Is that like what you mean?

If you want to defend Obama fine. Ayers is a worthless duranged lunatic. Always has been. Always will be.

Mac.. in fact your right. My interest is not to defend Ayers, and certainly not his bombing days (As I said I am against violent acts). Plus, he does not need defending. Do us a favor and look him up for yourself. He has done a lot of good for his community since then, so that shows that people can change if they have decades to consider where they went wrong. He's a professor now, so he is not a bomber anymore. Plus another poster said he won a citizen of the year award.. hmm, I wonder how many terrorists can boast of that?

Obama's friendship with Ayers doesn't bother me nearly as much as his arrogance which has helped grease the skids on the Wall Street slide. It's no cooincidence that the markets tanked for real after the last debate in which it became a near foregone conclusion that Obama will be President.

He has been repeatedly sticking his finger in the chest of the wealthiest people in this country and telling them, "I'm going to take your money. I'm going to raise the Capital Gains Tax, I'm going to impose windfall profits taxes, I may take ALL oil company profits, and I'm going to give it to those people over there." He announced he's going to take their profits to fund his programs, and so when it became evident he's going to be President, they yanked their investments out of the market and stuck them in offshore accounts in the Caymans or some place like that. I know, because that's what I did. Do the math, they're better off taking in a modest steady gain, than to leave their money in a market that brings an 8% return when the government is going to turn around and take 28% or more of that return.

Senator Obama may be smarter than the yahoos who jump up and down chanting his name at his stadium speaches, but he's not smarter than those people. They're billionaires, and self-made millionaires who've been at this game a lot longer than he has and they just thumbed their collective noses up at him and told him to go screw himself. He was arrogant and he paid the price. McCain may be a feeble minded old man, but at least he's smart enough to know you don't tell people who are already paying a disproportionate amount of the country's taxes that their greed makes you sick and that they're not paying enough.

So, where's he going to get the money to fund his projects now? It's not going to be from American companies because they will do whatever is necessary not to show a profit, maybe invest in new machinery. And, since their investors have just left the country, they won't have a lot of money to do that with, so they'll tighten their belts.

So he's going to have to either get the money from raising taxes on that mysterious middle class he's talking about, or abandon projects.

He was arrogant enough to think that he could outsmart these hedge fund managers he hates so much and the investors, and he just got pistol whipped by them. This guy is too wet behind the ears to be running the country. But I'm convinced he's going to win, so let's hope he learns his lesson and doesn't make the same mistake next time.  

p.s. There is one other place he might think he can get the money to fund his projects, and I can already see it swirling around in his head. He can nationalize the oil companies and the banks. Then the government can keep all those prfits for themselves. If that happens, so long capitalism.

My dear,  also you need to lose a lot of weight.  If all Americans would get their weight under control, that would be an easy way to bring the federal budget down.  Let's at least do the easy things for our country.

Wow, I got to this little rant a bit late. A few points:

JohnRussell:

TUCC is all about psychologically separating blacks and whites

I assume you're saying this is a bad thing, right? Because your buddy jazzman said just a few comments up:

anyone white , with no real connection or insight into the attitude or thinking of the black community , doesn't have much to stand on in criticizing my statements.

Jazzman:

People seem to be questioning my race because I don't fit their particular sterotype of what an African Americans political views should be.

They don't seem to understand how racist that is.

From the kid who claimed that only black people are allowed to criticize him? Pot, meet kettle.

lawdoc:

i admire you, man at least you are doing what u think is right

Meh, suicide bombers also think they're doing the right thing. Admire any of those?

jazzman, I would tell you to contemplate facts every once in a while, but I suspect you have an allergy against that sort of thing, so I won't encourage you to endanger your health.

You take yourself way too seriously. The gist of your allegations are that Obama will destroy the U.S. as you define it. I got news for you G.W. Bush beat him to the punch. From where I stand, your article is a farce that's full of self inherent contradictions. This isn't about Obama Jazzman it's about you. Fess up now!

Well done!!  When Barack first came on the scene, I was excited that African American's would have a voice that could be heard.  Being white I do not have the same struggles that your community has had to face.  After having several African American friends and loves, I realize how horrible so many people have acted towards you, but that is not every American.  I think we have come a very long way from where we were and with every generation we are hopefully showing more love and equality rather than hatred.  

Unfortunately, after watching Obama for a little while I began to be a little nervous about his true motives.  I do not love McCain, but I know how sold out McCain is for this country.  He would die for this country willingly, I feel that I know where his heart is regarding America and I feel safe with him.  

Obama won't even salute the American flag.  How in the world can we have a president would not salute the FLAG???????!!!!!!!!!!!  It is ludicrous to me that people do not seem to get it.  Obama has a secret agenda and it is not PRO-AMERICAN.  

I believe these are very turbulent times in our nation and I believe there are more to come, but I am comforted to know nothing is outside the realm of God and He uses all things to carry out HIS purposes.  In his heart a man plans his course, but the Lord determines his steps.   This may be the beginning of the "end times"...we can only wait and see and pray people's eyes are opened to the truth!

The Original Mac Ayers tried to kill people not Obama. My point is that YOU have probably met people that HAVE killed people before. How would you know? Are all of them good people? My dad killed people in a war does that make him evil? All you guys that claim that you KNOW that Obama has some evil agenda are the same kind of people that claim to speak for God. The same kind of folks that claim to know what is best for others without asking them. After hearing things at McCain rallies like "kill him", "bomb him", and "off with his head" I don't have to guess about who has the real EVIL agenda. Its McCain supporters. If not explain why they want to kill a U.S. senator because of no more proof than innuendo. Do you want to destroy the American government? Are you ready to kill American citizens on American soil? Who is the real terrorist here?

Finally, Someone that knows all of us. Try not to use Obama And God in the same sentence. It's being done way to much lately  

Um, who says you really are black?  Simply placing a picture on the net proves what? Anyone can post a picture of a black man and claim it as themselves.  But for the sake of argument lets say you really are black, so what.  There are blacks who are deluded.  No race holds a monopoly on misguided assumptions and/or rhetoric.

Lastly, I guess your "christian" enlightenment on this issue is supposed to lend more credence to its altruistic suppositions/validity?  Do we really need to go there?  Yet, I digresss...  It's ok to support McCain but please, save us the righteous indignation.         

Jazzman, thank you for a very thoughtful piece.  Not only I, but many others agree wholeheartedly in your assessment.  It was the people of color with whom I campaigned who alerted me to the inherent danger of an Obama presidency.  Like you, they can see only disaster if he wins.  We would all love to see a competent person of color take office, but Obama is about as far from being a competent leader as anyone could possibly be. 

Brian Ford (#1.44):

Most of Obama’s supporters are too young to know about that time, and unfortunately, could care less.

I would argue that there are few generations *as informed* as those you're referencing when you say "most of Obama's supporters" and find it insulting that you assume that -- because people support someone you don't support -- that it's because they're uninformed.

It wasn’t my intention to insult you, so let me clarify my statement.  According to Gallup polls, most 18-35 year olds support Obama and that is the GENERATION I am directing my statement.  My statement also applies to 18-35 year olds who support McCain.  It is the 18-35 year olds GENERATION who have dominated the blogs and whose responses I base my statement on.  I don’t assume that 18-35 year olds are uninformed—just indifferent, and unconcerned that events that occurred 40 or 50 years ago could possibly have a negative impact on current events.  HISTORY DOES REPEAT ITSELF.  You have to admit that, whenever an article discusses Obama’s alleged relationship with Ayers, Rev. Wright, etc., Obama supporters are not at all concerned about it, don’t want to hear it, and criticize anyone who brings it up.

He may look like a businessman from Wall Street and talk eloquently like MLK, but is in reality, Obama is a deep-rooted angry street kid.

Once again, someone so allegedly rooted in history offers no evidence, beyond her own suspicion hidden behind a few words of support for those poor black kids who are the victims of "violent youths and radicals".

Barring a video on YouTube, or an eye witness, what kind of evidence would be sufficient to get your attention?  I know—none, zero, zilch, nada.  You don’t want to be convinced that Obama may not be what he appears to be.  You don’t want to know that he might not be the perfect example of what a Black man can accomplish.  You don’t care to know how he accomplished it—just that he did.  I have followed links provided by bloggers (the only way I can find out about the REAL Obama) that provide substantial evidence that Obama had more than a passing relationship with radical individuals, yet that is not sufficient evidence for you.  Having that kind of closed mind is dangerous.  Voting Party line and/or race without performing your due diligence is dangerous.

Also, I resent your assumption that my concern for “poor” Black kids is superficial as you can’t possibly know what kind of support I have provided to them.  Your attitude reeks of disdain for White people, at which I can only conclude that you must be a Black person.

Your empathy would seem more appropriate if you weren't using it as a way to hold down a black man, simply because you don't support him, based on tenuous associations with a former radical.

Your rebuttal was legitimate until you used the race card—the standard response of an Obama supporter to criticism of Obama.  My concerns would apply to a WHITE man who had "tenuous" ties to radical people and organizations.  I would use the same arguments for a WHITE man, but substitute the Holocaust (Hitler) for the civil unrest of the 60's.  It can happen TODAY, because HISTORY DOES REPEAT ITSELF.  So, yes, I believe it is important to consider past actions of an individual when determining the character and judgment of a person who may be my next President.

Also, I resent your assumption that my concern for “poor” Black kids is superficial as you can’t possibly know what kind of support I have provided to them.  Your attitude reeks of disdain for White people, at which I can only conclude that you must be a Black person.

Thanks. I thought Monday was going to be a bad day, for a variety of reasons, but you've just brightened it. It's very rare that someone can make you think "gee, maybe I was wrong" and then "nope, I was right" within a span of two sentences.

My guess is that if you're the type of person who assumes a person to be black (I'm not, but am happy to be mistaken as such) if he has negative things to say about white people (which is just another way of saying that those uppity blacks sure do have a lot of hate) it probably follows that you've done little to support them -- and certainly for the wrong reasons if the support exists.

Your attitude reeks of disdain for black people (no, really -- it does) and therefore I must conclude that you have an unhealthy distrust of people who aren't just like you.

Actually, you are considering the past actions of people associated with Obama, not Obama himself.  That is the problem. 

I gotta tell you Brian. from reading your comments I thought you were black as well. This was not an immediate assumption. It's just after you read someone for awhile you start to picture them in your mind. Also I don't think you have a lot of hate but rather a lot of passion. And sometimes you let the emotion of the moment carry you. No disrespect.

Chick76, There was a saying Iheard down south once. I found it to be humorous but true. "If you lay down with dogs you gonna get fleas"

I wish people could see, that we are doing exactly as the government wants us to do.  We fight and argue, throw up racial and religous non-sense, that most of us don't truly believe.  Just because we are scared.  We fear the worst.  We as Americans have been taught to hate each other from birth.  No most of us don't have someone yelling at us, saying that all blacks are evil, or all muslims want to kill us, or white people just want us to stay slaves.  But, we are taught this by the things we see and hear.  For this i blame the government and the media.  I don't believe that our media is biased.  I believe they they are just one form that the government USE to promote their propaganda and lies.  No it doesn't have to be a direct lie, but if i only show one side of anything it is still a lie.  Think back to the news you see and hear.  I used to believe that israel and mid-eastern countries were nothing but war torn nations.  That their only purpose in life was to kill each other.  Then i met someone from their who talked about the clubs and the big cities.  I am embarrassed to reveal my ignorance, but it is in order to make a point.  The media makes us believe the worst of everyone that isn't us.  Ms. Red head, you said that people can show proof after proof of Obama being aligned with radicals and noone cares.  I would say that the reason Obama supporter's "don't care" is

1.  Minorities in general have had the media and government constantly show them in a bad light for many reasons, so why should they care that now they are doing it again to another minority?  Most of the things i have seen on t.v. or heard about from the news has been something negative about oh lets use Muslims.  I am a christian, i don't necessarily believe all their beliefs, but i do believe in some of them.  A one God being the key to our similarities, but their are more.  However, The news spouts stuff about the killings and the "Holy War" and all kinds of Junk.  Yes, some of them are like that.  Some of them fall into the Hate, but NOT ALL.  Yet we judge them as a whole.  Why is that.  I have seen so many bad reports about black people that hell sometimes i find myself scared.  OK im black, you caught me.  How much bad coverage is out their about iraqi?  How much good?  Im sorry, how much good that didn't reflect  OUR governments right's to be there.

2. When in the history of our country have "the people" had a choice of candidates that reflected "the people"?  Most of us are not rich white men, though i agree sometimes, it is hard to tell.  How many times and for how long have most people in this country believe that the candidates didn't reflect them?  Blacks and women get a chance to vote, and who do we get to choose?  I'll tell you.  We get to choose between two candidate, whose only interest is staying in power, and to keep the government the way it is.  They had no concern for the treatment of women, the racism shown toward AA or other minorities, or the problems or plights of the poor and working class.  Sure they made concessions when forced, but it was the people that forced them to, not their own beliefs of right and wrong.

This is the first time a majority of the people have felt they were represented by someone that reflects their needs.  A lot of people will say its racism, but its not it is Hope.  Hope that when they cast their vote that they will finally get a candidate that will make laws and decisions that reflect the people's will and not just the governments.  Palin is running on the premise that she is a christians, in order to spark the fear in christians that are already being persecuted in this country by the laws that have been passed.  She gives the Hope that The government will once again bring back christian Values, that God will no longer be a thing that has to be worshipped from the closet of your home.  Which is really good since apparently, I am forbidden to worship him anywhere else.  Obama doesn't have to try as hard with his appeal, one look and you can see it. lol  McCain/Palin throws out accusations about Obama to lessen his appeal to the minority groups that identify with him.  But they also go a step further by trying to scare off Christians that are already scared and upset by trying to make us believe that he is muslim and will persecute christians more than the government already has.  But in doing so, are they indeed saying that all muslims or religous groups that are not Christian is bent on destruction?  Is it just Muslims?  What group is going to be attacked next?  Do you care?  Do I care?  If the answer is no, then we as a people have a much bigger issue then which candidate is elected for office.

Ayers did somethings during the vietnam war because of his beliefs that the country was wrong.  He took a stance against injustice, and if he had succeeded would have been called a Patriot, or a Hero.  Am i saying he was right? Nope.  I'm not saying he was wrong either.  Im only saying that he took a stance for what he believed in, and i find that refreshing.  He was not against the Country, but against what he believed to be a wrong. 

Here is my point.  Stop letting fear and hate tear us apart as a Nation.  Stop being manipulated into seeing people as something other then what they are.  Odds are that your (insert race/creed/religion etc.) friend or associate is not the only nice or good one out there.  If that is true than the odds are that (insert presidential candidate) is not half as bad or good as you believe either. 

 This Seed has brought up alot of different emotions in me.  Even if Jazzy thought he was doing the right thing by writing it.  It seems that it is having a very negative impact on people who love this country and what it stands for.  It has made very intelligent people resort to hate and name calling.  I refuse to believe that even the nastiest reply was one made from the heart, instead of the head.  People responding out of fear and manipulation. 

We have a choice.  To love and respect people regardless of who wins the election,or who we each choose to vote for.

Hi Jazzman, To keep our constitutional democracy healthy we need competition of ideas.      But large segments of the media have simply become part of Barack Obama's campaign.       Maybe before each election each side should have equal access to those parts of the media where access is limited for technical reasons, for example broadcast TV where only a limited number of bandwidths are available.       The equal access would mean each side would present their understanding of the news, politics, entertainment etc.       Charges and interpretations of the "other side" could then be answered swiftly by each side.       The viewer could then make up their own minds on the issues.

I actually do have dogs and have never gotten fleas. 

There is something else that we say in the South, and that is "You are judged by the company that you keep".

Jesus kept company with a prostitute.  What does that make him?

It seems that some would only like to judge people by who they were, not by who they are now.  People can and do change.  If you aren't changing you aren't growing as a person.   Why do we try to rehabilitate criminals if people can't change? 

There is also a saying that goes, "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

Chick76-

I will give you credit for the "Jesus kept company with a prostitute"  He was the real JESUS, you know the one that is in the Bible he knew people he would try to help people, He truly loved everyone........and Obama isn't Jesus.

About rehabing Prisoners, does that really work? (The key word here is try.)  Not all the time, that is why the prison's stay over populated because when they get out, they usually go out and commit either the same type of crime, or they learned something in prison from another prisoner and do something worse.

I think here we were talking about Obama's friends and they are scary.

No one is calling Obama Jesus silly.  If you are going to have high standards for one, then you need to have high standards for all.  Especially the son of our lord.  If he can see past someones mistakes from the PAST, then why can't others.

I think you need to do some serious looking into why rehabilitating prisoners doesn't always work.  I could go into it for you, but I hope you have the intelligence to do it yourself. 

I for one have friends that have been prison and have been rehabilitated.  I do not hold their past against them. 

I also am not afraid of Obama or his friends.  If you find them scary go back to watching Sesame Street if that makes you feel better.

chick76-

I have so much information on people in prison's and I know people that have been in and out of prison's.  I always have hope for them, I've been disappointed many times.  I believe that they think the next time they do their crime they are smarter and won't get caught, but in most cases it just doesn't work.  But to my credit, I did say it doesn't work all the of the time, there is always some that stand out and really made a one time mistake.

Do you think Rezko will rehab?  Ayers wrote a book saying he should have done more.  It would have been safer had he protested with a sign in front of the White House instead of blowing it up, same with the Pentagon.  His friends possibly would still be alive today,At least they wouldn't have been blown up in a house while building bombs. It would have been better had Obama just admitted he knew Ayers instead of just blowing it off.  This could turn out like the blue dress evidence, something can still show up and prove he is lying.

I just don't trust Obama. 

So what your saying is that because he knew Rezko and Ayers, Obama is responsible for the things they did.  It sounds as if you know people as well that have made mistakes.  Are you responsible for the things they do? 

He is not responsible for what they did, but he could have made better choices of friends and a better choice of a Minister.

I do know the people that I speak of, but they are not my personal friends. No, I wouldn't be responsible for what they did, but I will not be friends with them either because of what they have done to other people, tried to believe one would have changed, but he didn't learn his lesson. 

jazz:

Why not? Thomas Jefferson wasn't some timid pansy-ass Tory, you know. He was RADICAL.

A man as radical as Barack Obama should not be handed the Presidency of the United States

How do you feel about a McCain/Palin administration?  They are radicals in their own way, you know.  Are you considering a vote for Barr, or Nader?  Say what you want about Obama, but you can't seriously think that McCain and Palin would be good for this country.

Actually, *all* our founding fathers were radical. Subversive, terrorist, disloyal... oh my! How much they payin' you Jazzy - provided you truly are who you say you are...?

jazz:

That was different. The entire govt was radicals.

Gotta start somewhere.

Moreover, listen: If Obama is the next President, he won't have had it handed to him, he'd have WON it. EARNED it. DESERVED it by virtue of the fact that we live in a democratic republic. If you don't like it, move to Russia.

jazz:

Okay. Sorry. You did say "handed the presidency," though. 

Although now that you mention it, weren't you in 5th grade when Ayers was active? Obama was in 2nd grade. And weren't you later a radical yourself?

I take issue with the article title -  why act as if your represent anything but your own personal bias.  Seriously why announce your racial or ethnic identity as some signifier of value to others. You act as if speaking as an African American will make others quake in their boots with wonder and awe.  That may actually work for Barrack Obama or even Colin Powell - they may enjoy such notoriety, but thankfully the merits of their achievements speak for themselves they do not have to play the race card.  For every rumour you pander to without substance, tens of thousands of African Americans will refute them, as will tens of thousands, yea millions of people in general.  Take it from me - I am a person and therefore I know.

A man as radical as Barack Obama should not be handed the Presidency of the United States.

He won't be handed the Presidency. He'll be elected in a landslide.

Jazzman,  With all due respect, Obama strikes me as  probably  the most least radical I could name in this election.  If you want to see "radical" and "radical behavior" look to McCain.  I don't want him anywhere near the button.  

Jazzman:

As I began reading your article, I coudl not help wondering to myself why ANY black American would write something like that.   I have many black friends from all walks of life (from recovering crack addict to college professor), and even those who did not support Obama from the start (some were Hillary supporters) have never raised the issues you did as the reason they were supporting someone else.

But then I got about 3/4 of the way through your article, and I suddenly discovered the real source of your problem with Obama - and it has nothing to do with Ayers.  Here is the part that caught my attention:

I too once held that same bitterness, and I won't claim it doesn't some time well up in me. But I finally rejected , and am able to overcome the hatred and bitterness, as I came to understand through my Christian spirtual experuence what the true causes of racism and all other hatred and disputes between humans truly stem from.

But I truly doubt Barack and Michelle have rejected their hidden rage and bitterness, under the warped hateful Afro-centric version of Christianity...

You tried to hide your ultimate issue with Obama by putting the above almost at the end of your article - but it glares off the page like a halogen headlight to those who pay attention.

The issue is not about whether Obama was influenced by Ayers, Wright, or anyone else.  The issue (for you) is that he isn't your preferred type of Christian (ie: fundamentalist, and likely right-wing conservative as well).    I would even bet that you're a Republican, and that you voted for Bush both times because he IS (or claims to be) your "kind" of Christian.   You may even be one of those who thinks that America is a "Christian nation" deserving of some special protection from "God". 

Unfortunately, this revelation leads me to conclude that your entire article is nothing but a religion-induced rant based solely on the fact that Obama is far more tolerant of diversity, and far more dedicated to promoting a truly free society (where abortions will remain legal, where homosexuality is not considered a 'sin", and where we overcome bigotry with shared goals and shared hope), than those on the far right of Christianity. 

Sorry, but even if you were correct in your assessment (which I seriously doubt) I will still take a "radical" Obama over a third term of Bush/McCain dictatorship any day. 

No disrespect meant here but jazzman....you were a kid during the 60's and 70's what did you personally witness again?  I'm from the same time as well.  Growing up white in Oregon with a very dark Hispanic mom, I did see prejudice but I was too young to really get what my mom was telling me about MLK and the civil rights movement at least not at the level you seemed to understand it and yes of course your experience was different, I get that but you portray yourself as a young adult right in the middle of....YOU must have been one extremely intelligent kid.

a white republican pretending to be black........

Jazzman is not pretending to be anything. He is what he says he is.

And Jazz served his country with pride. 

Since he is what he says he is I don't suppose there would be any problem in sharing a few more pics from the family album. 

Since he is what he says he is then there must be more than just that one photo he parades around. 

The man owes you no proof. Maybe he should give you his street address and you can stop by and inspect his house?? Your like an annoying fly in the room.  Please read 2.19

I think he meant 'Uncle Tom" didn't he? Isn't Tom Jones a Welsh singer? Or the title fictional character of a novel by Henry Fielding? He can't even get his racial epithets right. What a maroon.

: )

I'm no one of consequence, just a monkey in the wrench. 

But I am calling jazz out on this. Do what you must.

Calling down the sheriff on me will not answer the challenge but it would be what a white man would do.

It would really be so simple and easy to post more than just one photo of yourself. You could make me eat my hat and show all the world what a prick I am. 

This is the age of the digital camera and the webcam isn't it? You could take an image right now with digital stamp and all and shove this challenge right back down my throat. That would feel righteous wouldn't it?

So what is the problem? I've given you an opportunity but you can't drop the hammer? What are you hiding?

It is easier to attack Obama as a black man than as a white man and that is what this is all about.

It would really be so simple and easy to post more than just one photo of yourself.

What is your deal? Why would anyone have to prove anything to you?

show all the world what a prick I am.

You are doing a pretty good job of that yourself.

What kind of a choice is this?
Two Corporate Lawyers and a cup.
or
McSame Pail in feces.
Stop Missing the Point.
This is about:  Corporate Board Member ownage of Corporate America!!!
Politicians owned by lobbists = Lawmakers, Justice Department, US Military, etc..
You, unless you are unemployed. 
These are the people funding the Obama Biden Campaign!!!!
You DO NOT make these people angry:
Delaware: Freddie Mac, Fanny Mae, Bank of America, Wilmington Trust, First USA / Bank One / JPMorgan Chase, AIG, Citigroup, Deutsche Bank, Barclays plc, GM, Chrysler, ISDA, and those Corporations Incorporated at Delaware. 
Especially, ISDA. The People that brought you:  the 60 to 100 Trillion USD (it is not 700 Billion USD US Economic Crisis) Global Economic Crisis.  These people will be back for more just like GM, Ford, Chysler, September 2008, 25 Billion, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, 2000s, to milk the cash cow.  updated add: AIG, 85 Billion USD.  The 60 to 100 Trillion USD does not include the usary interest protected by the Delaware Court of Chancery.
Options are getting limited now as to what can be done to save the US Economy:  Prosecution under the Patriot Act for those involved as Treasonous Domestic Terrorists.  This is the only way to circumvent the Delaware Court of Chancery.  Unfortunely, this would directly involve Corporate Lawyer Vice President Joseph Robinette Biden Jr.of Delaware  .Indirectly involve (campaign contributions) Corporate Lawyer President Barak Obama (Oil Corporations, Coal Corporations, Corn Co-ops).

Um... Sorry, sir, but that is probably one of the most blatantly racist statements I've seen to date on the NewsVine

Rainkiss

How was that racist?? I am a white person who grew up in a suburb of Detroit. I remember the riots, curfews etc............ I can honestly say that I can’t even began to imagine what the black people were going through. I am not black so how would I know how the black community was thinking of feeling?? That’s like a man saying he knows what it’s like to give birth to a baby. I’m not saying I believe his article, but we don’t have a real connection or insight into the attitude or thinking of the black community!! Nothing offensive about that statement at all.

Jazzy!  Excellent article!  I really respect you and appreciate what you wrote.  I'm in my 30's so didn't live through that era, but I can appreciate your words and your honesty in your feelings.  Thanks for posting.

Jazz.. I really hope you are reading all of these posts.. because the majority see through your attempt to paint Obama as somthing he is not. You strike me as someone who has a severe inferiority complex, and is jealous that another black man can reach as far as Obama has. Just like Jessy Jackson, you seem to be jealous of the Obama and are trying to superimpose your experiences and thoughts onto him. Well here's your reality check:

1. Obama is half-white. He grew up in a home where, most of the time, his entire family was white, therefore your assumption that he has some sort of deep, brewing hatred for white people is not only totally unfounded, but laughable!

2. Obama didn't leave Hawaii until after he was 18 years old. That would be arounf the late 70s, so he missed all of those influences which you were exposed to in the 60s. So your presumtion that he is deep down a radical harboring ideas from that revolutionary era is also unfounded. You seem to be the one holding onto those days and the bitterness and injustice that went along with them.

3. If you want to judge Obame, then do what is logical and judge him by his record.. not by association. Has he only helped Blacks during his career?? No, he has helped Whites, Blacks and Latinos. (Do some research if you decide to write again.. or just do us a favor and don't write anything ever again.) You have not revealed Obama.. only yourself as a jealous, self-hating and extremely gulliable man.

And yet you mention NONE of these facts in your 'article' and expect us to take it as proof? Please! not everyone is as gulliable as you. I for one am not giving you any props for writing your own article, because it's pure speculation, and a waste of time. There's a saying that I think applies to you: It is better for a fool to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open his mouth and remove all doubt! (That is MY humble opinion.. with all due respect :)

(Ps. I read the same 'interview' that you were inspired by, and all I found was more speculation and opinions passed off as facts... funny how ppl can see different things when their vision isn't clouded huh)

Is it not written "Judge a man by his acts"?  If this advice is given heed, then why are we judging others not by their acts but by their associations?  The essence of the current attacks is that we should not judge Obama by his acts, but by the acts of those with whom he has come in contact with over the years of a very active and public career.  No one, no where, can ever pass such scrutiny, because none have control over those with whom they have business relationships.  And since when did socialist leanings return to being "dangerously radical"?  If that were true, Senator Kennedy would be the most dangerous of all."  Further, where does the idea come from that Obama is heir to the African American heritage?  He isn't.  His father was not born in America, and he cannot trace his heritage to some slave fore-bearers owned by whites.  And with Hawaii being one of the most heterogeneous places in the country, he wouldn't have experienced the racism directed at blacks in the continental US, so thus he would have no experiential basis for the underlying and hidden racial hatred against anglos that Jazz describes in his article.  While Jazz is certainly entitled to his opinion, an examination of Obama's  life reveals Jazz's factual postulates to be without foundation.  Jazz may have issues, but that is not proof that Obama does too.  That is just another form of guilt by aassociation--"because he's black, he must be just like me."  I firmly reject that hypothesis; although as a group we have communalities, as individuals we are each unique.  

Jazzman if its one thing I hope you are never called is "brother" unless its only by one of your siblings.

McCain is the real radical. He wants to socialize American debt and a socialist agenda while at the same time sending our tax dollars off to his buddies at these banks. That sounds radical to me. Besides I fail to understand what you guys think Obama is going to do. Whats he going to do assassinate himself? Not to mention the fact that we know more about Obama than anyone knew about 95% of all of our presidents. This is the first president that we have ever scrutinized to this level.

You know, there are people on both sides who wouldn't be an issue, if you'd simply take a stronger hand in moderation, and then Tyler wouldn't have to review it.

He's not interested in moderating, just posting BS articles like this one and saying "oh, and I'm black so my opinion about Obama should be taken more seriously." Oh, and of course deleting any message he doesn't approve of. Again, if you don't want to be called a nutjob, don't post articles that remove any doubt that you are.

Jazz,

I stand corrected regarding your age.  I was born in 1963 so had very little knowledge of what was going on in the world.  I was confused with your age in your article and thought you were closer to my age.  I applaud your willingness to express your views.  But I have to disagree with you on your decision not to support Obama based on his association with William Ayres etc......I'm looking at the country as it is now...the mess that Bush has created and looking at the candidates to see who I think would have the best chance at restoring respect for the US around the world in order to avoid WWIII and have the ability to work with others to solve our economic problem.  I just don't see how you can look at Obama's association with others and not look at McCain's associations for example Todd Palin.....he belonged to a group who wants to make Alaska its own country....to leave the Union.  And what about Charles Keating?  Yes I know he was cleared of any wrong doing....but Keating wasn't and they were very good friends. So shouldn't you judge McCain on who he associates with and has associated with?