Is Horse Racing Any Different Than Dogfighting?

This piece is so completely and utterly ignorant; it's painful to realize that I was linked here from msnbc.com. Here we go:

1 - You know very little about biology and anatomy. A jockey whipping a horse is not like having a "midget" sit on my back whipping me. The pain threshold of a horse is exponentially greater than that of a human. A jockey is trained to prod the horse along with their whip, not cause the horse pain. Think about it: What good is causing your horse to be in pain when you're trying to get as much physical exertion out of them as possible?

2 - Dog fighting is akin to horse racing? Please. The only parallels are that both involve animals and both involve money. Before all of that, there is a stark difference: One is a *race*, and the other is a fight in which it is *expected* for the victor to *kill* its adversary. By your logic, people shouldn't be allowed to ride horses for pleasure, period, since at any moment a horse can fall and break its leg, or be killed by dozens of other circumstances.

3 - Have you ever been to a racetrack? Plenty of poor people there trying to catch a lucky break. Nice attempt at trying to squeeze some class-baiting crap into your argument, though.

4 - NBC pulled the cameras away because let's face it: The euthanization of a horse is not good weekend afternoon television. The backlash from angry parents would have far outweighed the response this is getting from nut-jobs like yourself. Additionally, you complain that you didn't get the chance to see the horse go down... do I detect a hint of blood-lust in your words there? Well fear not: You can find a clip of the horse falling to its knees on YouTube. As for NBC not showing that, they only got one shot of it from a bad angle... one can't blame them for having all their cameras trained on the actual winner of the race.

Please, stop acting like you know what you're talking about. You are entitled to your opinion, but you should know that said opinion ignores many facts. Bad things happen in life. Animals and people die in accidents on a daily basis. Horses can fall and fatally injure themselves just running to get their food in the morning. It's sad. I've lost many horses in my life to injury, and it never gets any easier.

When you start comparing horse racing to dog fighting, I doubt you realize how many honest, good, animal-loving people you gravely insult with such accusations. I'm sorry if I come off as crass here, it's just infuriating to see such an oversimplification of this matter being given so much attention without scrutiny.

There is no getting around it, this is an unfortunate, untimely death of an excellent animal, but is horse racing really like dog fighting? These horses are breed to race and run as fast or faster than the other. Last I checked, dog fighting was right up there with cock fighting. A supposed sport in which the object of the "sport" was simply to kill or seriously injure the opponent. Doesn't sound at all like horse racing to me! For centuries, this has been noted as "the sport of Kings" for a reason. It is a sport that represents and showcases outstanding examples of these beautiful animals. Is common sense truly all but gone? Next we will be trying to catch fish with none evasive hook-like objects so as not to seem be practicing some barbaric human intrusion upon an aquatic specimen. But we don't seem to mind dumping our chemical and biological waste in their living room. Ah we humans are most certainly an interesting lot!

You have to remember that the horses in the Derby are the top of the game and these horses get the best treatment, however many Thoroughbreds do not get such nice treatment. I have owned many former racehorses over the years and ALL OF THEM end up with injuries for life due to racing at such a young age including bowed tendons, early onset of arthritis, etc. etc.

Nevermind the mental issues as they have been mistreated and pushed around for years. Most of these horses are never trained properly (all the racing stables is want them to run fast so that is all they are taught), so in order to get them to do what is wanted elsewhere, they have had their ears twisted such if they get a life after racing, their new owners have to start over by teaching them first that humans are not evil.

Final answer, yes there is a difference. Horse's are trained to run, with no intent of injuring the animal. Great care is given for their safety and well being. Sad things happen unintentionally.

Dog fighting. Dogs are trained to kill or mam the other. They are trained to be mean, and aggressive. There is proof that dogs that have been trained to fight can be rehabilitated. I don't see any sport in watching one animal tearing another apart. Even in nature a wolf will fight only to gain alpha status, once the other submits the fight is over, and they go on as a pack.

horse racing = dog racing

dog fighting = horse fighting

I have been watching the news and reading commentary since Saturday about the tragic occurrence of Eight Belles. As a horse lover and former "midget" as one reader called a jockey, I have a different opinion of this. Most of these negative commentaries have NO KNOWLEDGE of horse racing except what they see once a year at the Kentucky Derby! Yes, I do agree that Thoroughbred Racing needs drastic changes, such as the breeding, training and year round racing. This sport needs to be seen as such, a sport of qualified athletes, not primarily as a gambling event. I have been around Thoroughbred Race horses my whole life, these horses are bred to race! The living conditions of these horses are top notch! They have the best care, the best feed, best stalls, etc. Granted, many of the smaller race tracks around the country should not be open and not allowed to race, because they do not care about the conditions or the care of the horses. The main problem with American racing are the medication rules. Trainers are allowed to use pain killers, and other medicines that hide ailments. But that is the American way anyway, just take a pill! If everyone was more knowledgable about this sport, you would know it should not be considered cruelty to animals! These horses are bred to run, they love to run, it is what they do! What needs to changed is that it needs to be a seasonal sporting event, give the horses ar break and shorter training schedules like all other sports, such as Football, Baseball, Basketball, Hockey and NASCAR. These have breaks and time off! I'm sure most people won't see Racing as I see it, but you need to research and explore this sport before you make comments. You can't make an educated statement if you are not educated!

I totally agree with this writer - I was at a company sponsored event at the Woodbine raceway, and hadn't been to a horse race in years - watching those poor horses running their hearts out for the jockeys, then being rewarded with harder whipping the closer to the race line - just made me think what kind of morons think that this is a sane sport? one of my co-workers said that the horses didn't really feel it - I told him that their tails were there to brush away horseflies - and that if they could feel a fly they could most certainly could feel the whip. Anyone who believes that it's OK to beat an animal has to have a few loose screws!
And yes- the rich seem to believe that since horse racing is the sport of kings, there can't be any harm. Maybe they should be whipped (I bet a lot of them actually enjoy this activity - so in that case -open more S & M shops for these people & leave the horses out of it)

The vet interview I heard today held that the injury was rare.

I have to admit, the arguements in this article are sound. However, there is one other difference: The horse are not trained soley to maim the other horses like dog fighting does. I am also willing to bet the injury rate is much lower and, when they are injured, they are treat with the best medicine when appropriate. When the dogs are injured, I am sure the owners have no qualms about putting them down.

The issue I have is that the horses they race are generally way too young. Usually only 2 or 3 years old. Which means that their legs are not fully developed. This is dangerous, and leads to the kinds of injuries that usually they cannot survive.

I think horse racing, like dog fighting is cruel, and am completely opposed to it.

First of all, great seed!

I don't think horse racing, if practiced under professional regulation, is comparable to dog fighting. Yes,
gambling finances both practices, but a race is a whole lot more different than a fight to the death.
It would be more correct to compare dog fighting with cock fighting, and I'd rather watch the latter.
Much quicker, just as deadly, and the owner of the loser gets to have the primary ingredient for coq a vin!

Is Horse Racing Any Different Than Dogfighting?

Yes. In dog fighting dogs fight until one is dead. In horse racing, horses race to the finish line. It's not a definate that a horse will die due to racing.

The main difference I see is socio-economic. The dogfighting crowd is seen as low life, while the horse racing crowd, especially at the Kentucky Derby, considered the best and brightest of high society.

And I'd agree with you.

I have to admit that I've been largely ignorant of the subject until Eight Belles made the news, I always assumed that it was a humane sport. But after reading about the drugging, the selective breeding (lighter bones are selected, as is greater muscle mass, a bad combination), and the onset of training starts early, when their bodies are too young to handle that stress, I can't see it as anything but inhumane at this point. I think racing itself isn't horrible, it's what they are doing to the horses so that they win. So not the sport, but the competition, is what is hurting these horses.

Thanks for the article.

The comparison of horse racing to dogfighting may seem ridiculous, but when i thought about it, maybe not. Here are the similarities:

1) Both exist for the main purpose of gambling.

2) Both can sometimes lead to injury and death of the animals

3) Both exploit the animals for the entertainment of humans

Using this set of conditions, the comparisons between horse racing and dogfighting really don't compare. The premise is very different and the conditions are equally different. However, I really think that a more apt comparison is dogfighting to professional boxing. Think about that one.

Jazzman
re: 17.1
Have you ever looked up the definition of "Athlete"?

From the Webster New Collegiate Dictionary:

ath lete (n): One who is TRAINED or SKILLED (my emphasis) in exercises, sports or games requiring physical strength, agility or stamina.

One....one what? I take that to mean humans, animals, birds, etc. So, saying that we are humanizing them is just your perception that is not based on solid facts.

For what it's worth -- I just watched portions of "Amores Perros" and didn't want to finish it.

Basically, a movie with multiple dog fighting scenes. (And many other scenes of suffering dogs.)

I remain confident in my belief that the two events are not comparable.

I have to say that to compare horse racing with dog fighting is insane! Dog fighters are trailer trash whether they have multi-million dollar incomes or not its their mentality! Dogs are fought to the death on purpose! They are severely injured physically and psychologically some so traumatized that they can never come back and this is done to them intentionally.
Do you actually think owners/trainers spend millions of dollars on the care & training of their horses to kill them, or abuse them? No they don't, the horses are loved deeply by everyone involved: owners, trainers, grooms exercise riders, jockeys, etc. Can you say that about the poor dogs? Eight Belles broke down AFTER she crossed the wire when she was slowing down almost to turn 1, that is a long way from the wire! Here is some more info: A jockey uses a whip as a cue when the horses hind quarters are lenghtened in stride the very tip of the whip is applied when the horse's muscles are stretched out and tight hence they don't feel a huge sting just a light slap. Saez didn't overuse the whip! PETA is a hypocritical organization in 2005 they were charged with 62 counts of felony animal cruelty for illegally euthanizing over 100 dogs, puppies, cats, & kittens then tossing them in a dumpster like garbage. Since 1998 they have killed over 19,000 adoptable pets! To find out the truth about PETA go to www.petakillsanimals.com
Eight Belles was a gallant filly and she died doing what she loved to do (yes thoroughbreds love to run). While her injuries were indeed tragic, she was treated like the champion she was, with compassion to quickly end her pain and thats the bottom line. I think everyone should let Eight Belles and her family be, this has gone on long enough. Accidents happen thats why their called accidents. Rest easy 8

I've been reading a lot of comments about the tragedy of Eight Belles and I really have to say something. I have owned horses my entire life and I love these animals with a passion. I also love to watch the Triple Crown each year. In 1973 I was 21 and watched Big Red (Secretariat) win the Triple Crown and he was MAGNIFICENT! You were in the presense of greatness, a legend. This is why people love horse racing-even the hard core betters are awestruck if they are fortunate to witness a horse such as Secretariat. He was the greatest race horse of all time because he had heart and he loved to race-yes loved. He loved to run and it SHOWED! In the Derby he broke the track record for each 1/4 mile he ran-that means the next 1/4 mile he ran he beat his previous record which means he got faster with each 1/4 mile he ran for the entire race! Secretariat is the only horse in history to have done this! Two weeks later in the Preakness Secretariat went from last to first on the clubhouse turn, never relinquished the lead and beat Sham (his rival during his racing career) by 2½ lengths. Clockers timed him in a Pimlico-record 1:53 2/5 for the 1 3/16 miles, but because of an apparently malfunctioning clock, the official time was recorded as 1:54 2/5, two-fifths of a second off the track record set by Canonero II in the 1971 Preakness. The most amazing race was yet to come, the Belmont: Only four horses challenged Secretariat in the Belmont, even though the previous seven horses to have won the Kentucky Derby and Preakness withered in the 1½-mile race, unable to match Citation's 1948 Triple Crown. "Big Red" changed all that on June 9, 1973. Secretariat and Sham broke together and stayed that way into the first turn. They were by themselves on the backstretch when Secretariat made the biggest move ever seen in a Triple Crown race. The following is Chick Anderson calling that part of the race: "Secretariat is alone. He is moving like a tremendous machine!" He's going to be the Triple Crown winner. Unbelievable! An amazing performance. He's 25 lengths in front!" It still gives me chills when I read that. Secretariat won the 1973 Belmont Stakes by an unheard of 31 lengths and he did it in 2:24 minutes breaking Gallant Man's 16 year record by 2 3/5 seconds the equivalent of 13 lengths! The most impressive was the 31-length gap. It was so big, even the widest angle of the CBS camera covering the stretch run could barely show Secretariat in the same shot as the next-nearest horse, Twice A Prince. As Charles Hatton wrote in The Daily Racing Form, "His only point of reference is himself." When Secretariat died in 1989 it was discovered his heart was twice the size of a normal horse. He LOVED to run and he had HEART. The people that were fortunate enough to see this great athlete win the Triple Crown, or Seattle Slew in 1976, or Affirmed in 1978, know how it feels to be in the presence of greatness!
Finally, I have a question that needs answering, to everyone that is against horse racing because it is "cruel": Where is your outrage when yearly there are tens of thousands of beautiful, healthy, some pregnant, (some just babies), horses being shipped by the most deplorable means of transportation, some don't even survive the trip, to the slaughter houses in Canada & Mexico frightened beyond belief, then killed in the most brutal, horrible, & inhumane way possible-for human consumption. Where is your outrage for these poor horses? Although tragic, Eight Belles was put down quickly, with dignity, and humanely. Place your outrage where it is needed with horses that truly suffer agonizing fates!

Jazz you are right on a lot of points here, but so very wrong on others.

"Do you believe Eight Belles would have ran on that track, on her own volition, until breaking both ankles, without a jockey with a whip forcing her on to that extreme? "

The thing that I don't think you realize is that if a 1200 lb animal doesn't want to do something, it WON'T. Trust me. If you don't think so, you can borrow my horse for a day and you can just go ahead and try to make him run. These were the top 20 out of the several thousand 3 year old thoroughbreds in the world. These horses are the best of the best right now, and they wouldn't have gotten that far unless they wanted to perform. Yes, horses are taught to race, but they were born and bred to run. Those that do well love what they do. They wouldn't be there if they didn't, whips or not.

If you really want to get angry about horse racing, look at all the horses that didn't like to race. What happened to them? Did they get sold to nice homes looking to retrain the horse for another use? Sometimes yes, but most of the time not. They are sent off to auctions and forgotten about. If you want to be mad about something, be mad about that. Or what about all the other horses in this country that are killed thanks to incompetent owners? Or who are bred with genetic defects? There is an ugly side to everything.

What happened to Eight Belles was a tragedy. Breakdowns happen, but even the vet said he'd never seen a horse break both ankles, especially when trying to slow down after the race. The real problem here is the way they are bred nowadays. These horses are BABIES. Most horses are not even ridden until they turn 3, when most thoroughbreds have run several races by then. Working a horse that young is never good, but it's been going on for centuries. This race has been run on the same day, for the same age horses for 134 years. No matter the public outcry, it will not change. The track surface isn't the problem, the age of the horse isn't the problem. Even the trainers say they just don't breed them like they used to. Horses now are bred for speed and not soundness. The lines of the great strong legged Man 'O War are nearly gone. Replaced by the likes of Native Dancer and others (inbred too), who made faster babies, but with weaker legs, because that's what sells and wins. Nevermind they may never stay sound past their three year old year. It's taken 20 or 30 years for this problem to really come to the surface, but oh boy is it ever a problem.

And then there's the drugs. That's a whole different problem in itself.

Horses CAN choose to run. What they CAN'T choose is who their parents are, or what drugs they're given. THAT is the problem that the racing industry needs to take responsibility for.

This is the best article I have seen on this thus far:

wmolaw
thanks for the input. I'll keep that in mind.

heater
great post!

We have to remember Eight Belles sire was "Unbridled Song" who has Native Dancer once behind him, her dam "Away" has Native Dancer at least 3 times and Unbridled Song was retired to stud after his second canon bone fracture. Native Dancer was also in the great filly Ruffian's lines and we know what happened to her back in 1975!

The breeders should try to find lines where Native Dancer isn't so close or repeated as much, better yet not at all (if that's possible); it might be hard but they should be up to the challange, after all isn't that what racing is about-challenge? Native Dancer was great but not the best!

Look at A.P. Indy he is one of todays top sires; Golden Missle, Bernardini, Little Belle, and Rags to Riches are just a few examples of the excellent racers he has produced and break downs are very rare. A.P. Indy is by Seattle Slew and his maternal grandsire is Secretariat-no Native Dancer in these lines so it can be done!

wmolaw
True, few of Secretariat's sons were notable as racers or sires. It is his daughters, grand daughters, etc., that produce great racing lines now. Secretariat was an amazing athelete and I think they were looking for him to "duplicate himself" in his get, he didn't though. If superstars were made that easily they wouldn't be superstars would they?

Great horses are few and far between that's why we remember them more than the others.

Look out for Big Brown! He is very intelligent, his disposition is calm & quiet, his personality is playful, all in all he is a good natured colt. He is also FAST! I have watched his races quite a few times, his stride is so big and he just cruises along unbothered, until it's time to put on the gas and then he just takes off! Watching him break out, I could tell he wanted it! He reminds me of Secretariat, it's like looking at him run again only in a different color, lol. Big Red was also a very good natured and playful colt.

I've been watching racing for over 40 years, and I haven't gotten goose bumps for 35 years while watching a horse run, until now... I know it sounds silly but... I guess we'll see.

FYI there's a song about Big Brown on You Tube its really cool just look up "Big Brown Derby Song"

It's feeding time around here gotta go

Good article.

Vick was an exciting player to watch. Seems like selective enforcement.

IMO there is a big difference between Horse Racing and Dog Fighting. Horses are not always treated cruelly - fighting dogs are. Yo can have a horse race without injury or harm to a horse - not possible in a dog fight. With Horse Racing mistreatment and injuries are possibilities - Dog Fighting it's pretty much a garantee.